>> Major funding for "Chat Box" with David Cruz is provided by the members of the New Jersey education Association.

Promotional support for "Chat Box" with David Curruz is provided by insider and Jay, dedicated to New Jersey political news.

Committed to giving serious political players and interactive form for ideas, discussion and insight.

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♪ David: Hey, everybody, welcome to "Chat Box" I'm David Cruise.

There has been some news on the suite.

We have one fewer candidate after Ed Durr announced he is dropping out of the Republican primary.

And the deadline for qualifying for state matching funds has passed and Democrat Sean Spiller did not qualify.

We continue this week with our conversations with the candidates including Sean Spiller who will join us in our second-half but we begin today with Democrat Steve Fulop, the current mayor of Jersey City, the first one in the race, and he joins us.

Mayor, welcome back to the show.

>> I'm still standing, I'm still in the race.

David: Still there.

So let's start with some budget talks, since the hearings have now started in earnest.

It is fair to say that or is it fair to say that the current rate of growth of the state budget is unsustainable, 67% in the last eight years?

how does Governor Fulop put the brakes on that?

>> It's unsustainable.

Definitely.

There are couple things, I think that you know, we had a lot of money from the federal government during Covid, and we were not as prudent as we could have been as a government and how we spend that and think about long-term budgeting.

Deep in New Jersey pay a corruption tax, which is a system of government.

And we are trying to change that.

I think that creates the cost of government.

Got a lot of layers.

You need a governor that forces consolidation of municipalities and schools pin people talk about unfunded mandates, mayors know that.

Sean we'll say the same thing but if you're going to control spending, you need somebody who understands those and has some scars and sois willing to fight.

David: Since 2014 the Jersey City budget is up over 36%.

Is that acceptable?

>> Let me say this.

It is funny.

You said one is up 60% and the city budget and we are half of that.

So I think that that speaks to a different type of responsibility, inflation has been astronomical.

So when you think about relative to inflation and what we've been able to achieve, we have done nine out of 10 years with no tax increase, it is a different story than the state budget.

What we have that will lead -- leap to the next administration is something that is better than the we we found it.

Probably not the same case when regards to the state budget.

David: You tell everybody that your city has built the most affordable housing in the state.

Your friend from Newark to disputes that but we will not have that debate.

You have to acknowledge that your city is the one of the most expensive cities in the country to live in based on rent.

How do you justify that dichotomy?

>> Let me say it this way.

I think there are two things that are clear in all ratings, both Newark and Jersey City rank in the top 20 in the country.

So it is not like you have one mayor that is free of criticism.

We have built more affordable housing than anybody else.

The reality is that no city can manage the crisis of affordable housing by itself.

We have a very comprehensive affordable housing plan and very aggressive laws, but what if we are building which is important to the conversation, market rate housing at affordable housing, New York City and the surrounding areas are not doing it.

You will have pressure.

And so, we talk a lot about a statewide plan.

I think I am unique in that lane.

David: Is the Jersey City model the model that the rest of the state should follow and would that be a model that, a governor Fulop would try to implement?

>> Look, I think you need to have smart growth but I think you need to be conscious that Chatham New Jersey is not going to be New Jersey -- Jersey City and people choose to live in suburban areas have different wants and different needs and we should be mindful and respectful of that.

I talk all the time about the fact that having a mayor as a governor is a very specific qualification we have not had a long time and being that New Jersey is so much government, the person having that experience is important for Trenton because the way Trenton operates is not sustainable.

In the last 20 years you had a U.S. senator, U.S. attorney and an ambassador to Germany who came in, and I think that is the reason why you have all of these crises, people are well-intentioned, but not understanding local government.

I will have a different perspective.

David: Can you make housing more affordable without also making things more expensive?

I mean we hear Advocate to say, if you build more, you will have more inventory to meet demand etc..

But if you're building 1000 units and only 20% of them are affordable, I mean, how long does it take for those two to march or should they?

>> You got to do both because market rate conversation is certainly part of it.

There is no question.

So I think that look, we have built more affordable housing but you also need to think about market rate housing.

You cannot do one without the other.

The reason that you have an 80-20 formula is because you need to make the economics work.

I do think that we should have a panel not of judges, of local elected officials that think through the quotas and responsibilities.

I also think places like Newark and Joses city in Hoboken and Montclair should factor into the affordable housing both of the state which we don't today.

And I do think that the market rate conversation particularly around transit hubs is really important and the state will benefit because prices will come down.

David: Let's talk about the cost of electricity.

There are hearings about this and everybody seems to be talking about it as the next big affordability crisis.

Does New Jersey need to alter its energy future planning, like to include more natural gas and nuclear?

How do you bring the price of the lights down?

>> I think it is really important to put the priority on renewable energy.

I know that some of the other will say all of the above approach.

And that has been the talking point for 20 years.

I do believe climate change is a reality could I think that if you had people on the BPU that had more expertise as opposed to politicians you could drive the prices down.

When you have a state chairman and state elected officials that work for PSNG as lobbyist, that lends itself to the problem as well.

So when I say to corruption tax earlier, I think those ta--s those things are fixable but I would still prioritize renewables because I think long term that is what the country and state really needs.

David: Pr prioritize it in the way the current governor has or is there a different way of prioritizing?

>> Phil says the right thing.

The action in connection dots to execution could be desired.

It is reason why the other states have been able to get wind energy up and running as an example and for four years we were slow.

It is the reason that cannabis legalization was slow to implement here.

Look, and Jersey City a lot of the progress here, and nothing is perfect, but did not happen by accident.

People say they have proximity to New York and of course it would happen.

Jersey City has been three miles from New York for 250 years.

AA lot of it has been because I am in the weeds and willing to kind of rock the boat.

That is important for the next governor.

David: What with the first 100 days of a Fulop administration include?

What will be the big ideas of that first 100 days?

>> I think the first thing you have to do is correct some of the transportation issues.

Two things.

The first is the funding source for New Jersey transit, which was our policy idea that they put into place last year.

We did it a year earlier.

And they only put it for five years in Trenton.

You need to correct that in perpetuity.

You do it in the first 30 or 60 days because you do not have the capital to do it again later.

Second thing is we are appropriating dollars away from the turnpike expansion.

A silly project, 12 billion dollars, putting that towards light rail ,Bergen Extension and South Jersey, Closter and Camden so's you can get two more investment in mass transit, and the third is stop outsourcing the buses.

I would like to get on the track, so to speak, to fix New Jersey transit immediately.

You like how I use the word track, by the way?

David: We saw >> What you did there.

>> There is a stopped and pulled it came out this week that found, not surprisingly that Trump, V ance and Elon Musk had disapproval ratings in the 50's but the group Americans disapproved of the most was, at 67%, You guys, Democrats.

You are Democrat.

What does your party have to do to start reversing those numbers?

>> I think it was Democratic Congress people in particular.

David: You are right.

>> Let's be clear it was not all Democrats.

David: It wasn't Democratic mayors, you're saying.

>> Correct.

I think there is a reality in the selection that the biggest criticism that Republicans and independents are going to say of the next nominee is that it's four more years of Phil Murphy and the same old same old.

And I think that is a real risk come this November.

And I think what I offer different is an independent streak that has pushed democratic values and not compromised to political bosses and it would be hard to say that I am the same old same old because I speak my mind.

And I do think that that poll indicates there is a real risk if we do not nominate the right people come June and then November.

David: And what does that have to look like?

What does that person have to look like, what is that personality have to be?

>> Me.

David: "like me" writing that down.

What are their qualities have to be coming up to be competitive -- be combative?

>> a person that has core convictions not all six of us running for governor has articulated a vision for what New Jersey will look like.

And what how they will get there.

Most talk and platitudes.

I think it is important to energize the base of the party by being clear, speaking to vulnerable communities, and I think that a vision will energize young people, which is very important to our success in November, just the same old same old.

And I think all of us will say the right things about fighting Trump and Musk.

You really want someone that has a clear plan.

I talk a lot about drawing down the surplus to offset Medicaid cuts and -- staying there, and some of that statewide initiatives.

I am more clear on policy.

I do that because I want people to understand what it will be like as governor and I want them to understand if we get in this together they will have a fighter.

And, look, you have a lot of familiarity with Jersey City.

And a lot of the progress here did not happen by accident.

I mean, it really happened with some fighting and scars, things that people take for granted like a pedestrian plaza was a fight and today it is appreciated by a lot of people, not everybody but it is.

But the things that have changed the city, you need somebody in Trenton to mix it up a little bit.

David: I have about a minute left for you to extol the virtues of your lieutenant governor choice, who you will now announce.

When is that happening?

>> We'll announce it next week.

It is a woman, I will tell you that.

Female.

And she is amazing.

And I think that it speaks to a lot of the value Spirit I try to think about who would be somebody that complements what I'm trying to do, who has as much policy knowledge if not more than I do, who speaks to the values that I think our apartment in this moment in time?

-- are important in this moment in time?

And somebody that the public will understand why our candidacy is different.

For me, and makes no sense that this is not practice declaring and saying who your partner is going to be prior to the primary.

I think the public should know one administration will look like.

So, I'm sure after we do this, others will eventually follow.

Maybe not this election, but definitely in four years.

David: Governor Fulop, good to see you, man.

>> Take care, bye.

David: Sean Spiller is the former mayor of Montclair and current president of the New Jersey education Association.

They are the largest teachers union in the state .

And for the record, the NJEA is an "Chat Box" "Chat Box" underwriter of and the mayor is a member of the community advisory board.

Welcome back.

Sorry for the extra long intro.

>> Thanks so much for the introduction and for having me on, thanks.

David: I'm sure it is not the news you want out there about your campaign but it is what it is.

You did not qualify for matching funds.

So you won't be in the debates.

You say, no big deal?

>> Look I say this, this campaign has been different from the start.

It is a grassroots campaign where we are out there talking to folks, we have hundreds of volunteers throughout the state collecting petitions, talking to folks, making phone calls.

This campaign was never going to look like other people's campaigns.

I am not calling Elon Musks, not getting the dollars from Wall Street other people do.

This will be hard work and folks chipping in what they can then make sure they got someone, me fighting for their issues and that is what this campaign is about.

It is been that way from day one and it will not change now.

David: But isn't it fair for people to think, well, if he cannot raise half $1 million, does he deserve a two for one match of public money?

>> I say this, we all cannot be so frustrated that the system never seems to center hard work folks, folks who are struggling when we then say, listen, the only way you will be deemed as somebody who should be able to run for governor is if you can call the same very wealthy folks that every other candidate always calls to make sure you get the big money to be on the debate stage or anything else.

We got to change the way the system works, and is it rigged against an average person?

It is.

You have to have so much money, you got a happen got to have, these are all barriers and it is a way that they try to keep the system the way it is.

But we are looking to do something different.

We are looking to fight for folks whose voices need to be the ones that are centered in these conversations around making New Jersey more affordable, and that is what I'm doing.

David: The irony of course is that your campaign is one of the best funded because an NJEA affiliated PAC has promised to spend 35 billing dollars to support you.

>> You should look at where those dollars come from.

For me, who are you talking about?

Everybody knows, it is hard-working teachers in the classroom, bus drivers, it is custodians, it is the lunch aides, folks who pool dollars together voluntarily, voluntarily joined it to say, listen, we have got to make sure we have a chance to push back against the Elon Musks and other billionaires and Wall Street entities that always dominate elections.

They are the someone's who are finding PACs for so many of my opponents.

David: State budget, $58 billion, up 67% during the Murphy administration.

The governor says the budget was underfunded by his predecessor.

Is that fair to say?

And the other question, how will you put the brakes on 67% growth in eight years?

>> I think it is fair to say, first and foremost, we saw the previous governor underfunded so many things in the budget.

To our detriment.

We saw where we stood in terms of states around us in terms of economic growth because of lack of investment at this governor did a great job when he talked about the pandemic and other things that are out of all of our control trying to make sure we are stimulating the economy.

The argument always is, are we putting dollars in that are then earning more dollars that we continue to grow the economy, allowing more revenues and resources to come in, which allows to support more people.

If we continue to grow our economy, the jobs that are available, the incomes that people earn, that is a good thing.

We always have to be mindful of the spend.

We always have to be mindful of how the income versus the expense side of things, just like our families.

If we can invest in people, it is a good thing and if we have the dollars to do that we know that they invest their dollars right back into the economy.

So, that is important piece of it I think we should watch that in New Jersey.

David: We are just hearing about massive laysoff as the federal health and human services Department, medicated in serious jeopardy.

Let's say the state takes a big budget hit as many fear from Medicaid cuts.

This could be your budget soon.

What programs do you sacrifice?

Do you nibble around the edges?

>> No, I don't agree with that at all.

David: You don't agree with what?

>> You're definitely right.

It is not just the ones you're noting, going after the department of education, to eliminate, trying to steal the one point $1,000,000,000 we get there.

It is Medicaid but they are talking about every single program.

But we know this, they are not doing it just to take these dollars away and give them to states on their own.

No, they are taking them to say we want to enact a new tax policy.

We can all read Project 2025 and that new tax policy is to give billionaires and ultrarich Corporation a massive tax break.

David: I got you on that.

>> I will do aggressively as governor is say this, we cannot number around the edges with our budget.

We cannot see where we are trying to sacrifice a few dollars to make up these gaps.

The dollars they are talking about with that lack of bold action, we need bold action where we change our tax code in New Jersey to go after every single dollar that they steal out of our pockets and make sure that we take it from the very folks they are going to give to, the billionaires to make sure we fund the programs that we need.

We have to be aggressive in that.

We cannot have a big gap between the time that they do it and the time that we have to because then programs shut down.

We have to invest in people of the very time they are running away from them.

David: So, all right, let me move on.

Because I'm running out of time here.

How are you going to bring electricity rates down?

>> Through investment.

It is not just electricity rates, it is about our environment, I link them together.

I said it from day one because the fact that, listen our costs are going up because a lot of those alternative energy, green energy plans and programs that will come online are being shut down at the federal level and we are seeing an increase in our rates because of it.

So we at the state level have to invest, we have to invest in all green technologies and the green economy overall.

We understand that at the federal level they are putting their some and squeezing down on wind, so we have to invest in solar and battery technologies and investing in the things that we continue to use to increase our energy production.

Because we know increasing energy demands in the state which will also help to bring down costs, not just on the front end but on the back and because of storms and other things we are facing that cost us dollars every times we rebuild or pumping out those basements or all of those things that raise our insurance rates that we are trying to get.

We know there is a cost to not doing enough.

As governor, I will invest in that in New Jersey so we keep our costs down on both ends.

David: So let's get a quick question in here about affordable housing.

How do you get the price of housing under control?

Some people say build more to meet the demand Peer but when developers build more, they not building 80 percent affordable, 20% market rate.

So, how do you close that gap?

>> I've had a specific solution for that right from the start as well.

And I've seen it firsthand as mayor in Montclair.

First thing you have to do is that's -- for first-time homebuyers, folks trying to get into the market, we have to stop it where they are competing with venture capitalists.

It took me two years to afford my first, Montclair, a one bedroom with four bedrooms above.

Right now I know these are being gobbled up by Wall Street entities and they are jacking up the rents.

As governor I would create a period where we the people have the first opportunity to buy homes, not getting priced out, our mortgages are still high, we have a chance to buy the home first.

We have to get homes that are abandoned, get them back on the market to be part of our first-time home buying pool as folks look for homes.

We have to get foreclosed homes back as well.

That is how we solve the issue of home time -- first time home buying opportunities pin talk about the rents, towns over the state -- they have to meet a follow up -- affordable housing obligations.

But what they are is when they are left on their own, they say developer come build.

Those developer say I will build 20 affordable units in here is 400 high end luxury units.

And we know what effect it has.

People see how much they are charging for the high-end luxury and they raise all of the rents.

As governor I would go's and partners say we are not going to build things that are out of line with the character of the community.

We will not build 420 units with only 20 affordable, we will build 50 units and put dollars behind and partner with you to do that.

But we will build the 20 affordable, and build 20 workforce housing because we know there is plenty of folks who do not qualify but cannot afford to live in that community.

We will build whether it is senior housing or housing for those with special needs or veteran housing, we can add and stack layers, we will build something much more in line with what the community needs, higher density of housing that is it affordable and we get what we need in terms of a greater cost control over some of those rents.

Between the rental side and the home ownership, that is how we address the housing crisis that so many folks are facing.

David: It's not an easy answer and you are the teacher and the teachers union president.

It is a hypothetical.

You're appointed by the courts to mediate the school segregation suit.

Give us one or two things that you would say to both sides they have to agree on.

>> Here's what I'd actually just do.

We do not have to wait for the courts to desegregate.

We have some of the most segregated communities in the nation could we know that, even though we are so diverse and housing is at the root of that.

You asked me the housing crash before because that starts to address it.

With our school specifically, we can do what we have done in Montclair where we have magnet schools and as a parent I ranked our top choices for our kids and they look at a number of factors, socioeconomic agree, decide where to go and we have a bunch more diversified district as a whole.

There are plenty of cities right now, Jersey City and others who are very segregated in terms of where kids go to school.

We need to desegregate within our communities first.

And then as governor what I would do is say, I'm going to use the school funding formula to incentivize communities that are in rings around the first committees to accept students.

Allowing for even more diversity and desegregation of our schools.

You start by doing that more and more and what you get is again, not somebody being bused too far from their home but getting much more diverse schools and again voluntarily getting people to want to move to those spots and take advantage of those opportunities.

And working towards desegregate our schools.

I think that is something we can do right now.

As governor, I would not have to wait for the courts to tell us what has to happen.

We can begin to enact some of these things to make a difference on day one.

David: But you would have to get towns to agree to take students and from surrounding communities.

>> It's a lot right now, but you have to incentivize through the school funding formula to say the more you diversify, the more you open up those seats, the more the formula will reward you for doing so.

We need to review the formula anyway.

It has to address students with special needs.

It does not do a good job of that.

It has to account for some of the fluctuations in wealth and a community that we see some of these spikes and dips.

But this is another piece where we can improve it we can say, we will use that funding formula again to give more dollars to districts that are doing what we all should be, which is getting more diverse school district and certainly more diverse communities.

David: All right, Sean Spiller, Democrat running for governor.

Good to see.

>> Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it.

David: Thanks also to Steve Fulop for joining a solar.

We are on blue sky now, follow us @David Cruznj and stay current when you subscribe to the nj Spotlight news YouTube channel.

I'm David Cruz for all of the crew at Gateway Center in downtown Newark, we thank you for watching and we will see you next week.

>> major funding for "Chat Box" with David Cruz is provided by the members of the New Jersey education Association, making public schools great for every child.

Promotional support for "Chat Box" with David Cruz is provided by insider nj, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey political news, insider NJ is committed to giving serious political players and interactive form for ideas, discussion, and insight.

Online at insider NJ.com.

♪