[upbeat music] - Throughout history, we've heard his story.

Now we hear HerStory, the unique voices and perspectives of women in New Jersey.

Roe v. Wade guaranteed a woman's right to an abortion in the U.S. since 1973.

Hi, I'm Joanna Gagis.

In this first episode of HerStory, we'll look at the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision that overturned Roe.

We'll bring you a range of perspectives from women across the Garden State.

You'll hear their stories, and their thoughts on how this decision impacts them.

You know, abortion is still a conversation that hides in the shadows, but I spoke with two women who share the life circumstances that led them to that very difficult decision.

The first is Andrea Jimenez, and this is HerStory.

- Yes, so I got pregnant when I was 19.

At the time, I was in this very toxic, and abusive, and awful relationship.

And a big part of that is I'm from Texas, I was 19, I wound up pregnant.

I was going to a community college at the time, and I was terrified, 'cause I felt, at the time, I wasn't fit to be a parent.

I still don't feel I'm fit to be a parent at 22, so much less like three years ago.

And my big thing is just that like a lot of people have asked me before, like, do you ever regret the decision that I made?

And no, I never did, because I've never looked back at it once thinking, oh, you know, maybe I should have done this or this or that, but.

- How did you come to that decision?

- I came to it almost immediately.

I really wanted to go to a university, that was my goal.

And I knew that if I was pregnant, I was going to not, I was gonna have to give that up, because I was going to have to raise the child, and I was also going to be stuck in that relationship.

And I couldn't do that.

I couldn't do it to myself.

I still knew that, you know, I couldn't do it.

So I made the decision, actually the minute that I got that positive pregnancy test, and I told my partner, I'm doing this with or without you.

So you can either support me or don't, but either way I'm doing this.

And so I went to my local abortion clinic, which was an hour and a half away from my hometown.

- Were you scared, going to get the abortion?

- Yes, absolutely.

You know, it wasn't something that I regretted, but I was alone with someone that I didn't trust, and you know, I felt like I couldn't talk to anyone, so absolutely, it was terrifying.

I don't think anyone could ever say that oh, it wasn't scary, it was, you know, but... - Was it emotional?

- It was, I mourned, I did.

I was able to say my goodbyes and say like, you know, one day I will be a parent, one day, I want to be a parent.

And you know, when that day comes I am excited for it.

I'm excited to raise my own kids, and introduce them to their culture and their family.

But you know, I'm still not ready right now.

And I definitely wasn't then.

So while it was emotional, and it was scary, I've never regretted my decision.

I've always felt that I've been very solid in that.

- If this had happened to you now, with the ban in Texas, what would you have done?

- Honestly, I probably would've gone to Mexico and get it done.

I have family in Mexico.

I live very close to the border.

It's a 15 minute way to do it, and I would've done it regardless.

- Do you think that would've been a less safe option?

- Probably, to be honest, I mean almost yes, but I would've done it regardless.

I would've gone to Mexico.

I would've found a way to get out of state to do it.

I would've done it regardless of anything.

And even if it meant I had to do it myself at home, at the time, I honestly probably would've.

- That's a terrifying thought.

- It absolutely is.

And that's probably one of the biggest reasons why I'm telling my story now is because like, there is hope at the end of it.

And you know, even at the time, if I couldn't afford it, I considered it, I really did.

I thought about, you know, doing it at home myself, and I'm not sure what I would've done, but I'm glad that things worked out the way that they did.

And that was, and I'm super grateful that, you know, this happened before, it even happened before the heartbeat bill, but I still get scared.

I get scared thinking about, you know, what would've happened, the what if of at all.

- You're 19 years old, you're in college.

How did you afford it?

- I actually just had gotten my first credit card for the very first time, I had a 750 maximum line.

I hadn't used the credit card yet.

So I actually maxed out the card on the abortion because it was $50 for the IV, and it was $700 for the procedure.

And it took me two years to pay it off.

- You say you never regretted it.

Did you ever at any moment feel like it was the wrong decision for you?

- No, not once.

- And not since then?

- Not since then.

- How do you talk to your family about it?

How do you talk to other people about it?

Because abortion is still very much something that I think a lot of women aren't willing to come forward and say I had an abortion.

- It took me a long time.

It took me a really long time to get there.

My mom was one of the first people to know, but I didn't tell her until after it happened, because like you said, it's really difficult to come forward about it.

And quite frankly, I was embarrassed.

I was embarrassed that, you know, that it happened.

I was embarrassed that I felt like I put myself in that situation.

And so I felt like I couldn't talk about it.

And so, my mom was the first to know, and little by little, like in the past, like two to three years, I've come forward to close friends and things like that.

And very recently actually, is when I've become very public about it, because I was always scared that, you know, my extended family would hear about it.

And my extended family is very, very religious.

They're very traditional Hispanic people, and so abortion is a big no no, we don't even say the word in the house, like, kind of thing.

And so, but more recently, you know, given everything that's happened in this country, and I know that there's other women like me, I know there's other young girls like me who don't know what they're doing, who are as terrified, 'cause it's a terrifying experience to be alone in pregnancy, and it's terrifying alone to be alone, pregnant, and knowing that you wanna give it up, but not knowing how to go about it, because I didn't know.

I feel like part of the process of being able to come forward now has just been, I've had time to heal.

I've had time to, you know, reflect and think about things.

The first time when Roe v. Wade, when the draft leaked, is when the very first time, is when I finally spoke about it publicly, and it wasn't as scary as I thought it would be.

And so that's what kind of gave me the comfort of knowing it's going to be okay.

So I feel more comfortable talking about it now.

It never does get easier, but it gets easier to be able to say it out loud.

- But some women here in New Jersey were thrilled about the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision, and are continuing the fight to end abortion access everywhere.

Meet Grace Rykaczewski.

This is HerStory.

Grace, you call yourself the pro-life Barbie.

Where did that name come from?

What does that mean to you?

- Oh goodness.

Well, I think that for me, I was just trying to play around with different Instagram handles, and I thought that it would be a good idea to combine two of my passions, which are, I love fashion, I love makeup and things that are girly, the color pink, and I also am very proudly anti-abortion.

So I just combined the two of those, and that's where it came from.

- You are in college, you've been an activist for quite a while.

In fact, you were in front of the U.S. Supreme Court when the Dobbs decision came through overturning Roe.

What were you feeling in that moment?

- I was just absolutely elated, I was so excited.

I think that for so long, we weren't sure whether Roe was actually going to be reversed.

I always kind of really hoped and felt like it was going to, but so many people, even in the pro-life movement, they said, oh, it's never gonna happen.

But to see it actually coming to fruition, it was such an amazing historic moment.

- You actually started a group at Rider University called Students for Life, Rider University Students for Life.

Tell me about the organization, what is the work that you're doing?

- It's just been incredible work that we're doing.

Our mission is kind of twofold.

We exist to equip and educate students on our campus about the reality of abortion.

And then we also exist to help women who are facing unexpected pregnancies while they're going to school here or working at Rider University, so that's just been what we've been doing for the last year.

- When you say the realities of abortion, explain what you mean.

What do those conversations sound like?

- So, a lot of it has to do with talking to people about prenatal development.

I mean, I was shocked when I came on my campus and I found out that most people, they really believe that before a baby's born, it's just a clump of cells.

And just talking to them about prenatal development, like how early there's a heartbeat, at only six weeks, showing people what it looks like.

They're just, they're shocked by the fact that it actually is a baby while it's still in the womb.

Then also educating people about abortion procedures, and what actually goes on during an abortion.

That it's a very violent procedure.

The baby doesn't just disappear.

- You also mentioned that there's support for women who are pregnant, explain what that support looks like.

- Yeah, absolutely.

So we are really plugged into a lot of different community services in the Lawrenceville area, different pregnancy centers that will help these women.

A lot of these services, women don't know about when they discover that they're pregnant.

A lot of these services, even our school won't refer them to, they'll refer them directly to Planned Parenthood or an abortion clinic.

But if a woman decides that she wants to keep her baby, we want to make that as possible for her, like as possible, we wanna make it so that she can do that.

So we'll provide babysitting, if that's what she needs during finals week, so that she can study, we'll throw a baby shower for her.

We'll just do whatever she needs to get by, because we believe that she doesn't have to pick between being a mother and having an education.

We think that she can have both.

- So you live in a state where abortion access was codified into law.

How do you feel, what are your thoughts around New Jersey now being a safe haven for women who wanna access abortion care from around the country?

- I think that it's extremely disappointing, but it's kind of what we were expecting.

But I think that in years to come, I think that we are going to shift New Jersey, and it is going to become more pro-life, as people learn more about prenatal development, as the science comes out more, to show that life does begin at conception.

I think that more people are going to come over to our side.

And I think that we're going to see abortion be made illegal everywhere in the country, including New Jersey.

- You push back on the notion that limiting access to abortion care is about a man controlling a woman's body.

- Yeah.

- You say that's really not it at all.

And that there are actually more women in the anti-abortion movement than I guess the media portrays?

- Yeah, absolutely.

I think that the pro-life movement is mostly women actually.

- Is that what you see in your group?

- Yes, absolutely.

Especially on Students for Life, on a national level, almost all of the people working for them are women, probably like 80%.

And most of the leading pro-life organizations are also run by women.

It's not a men wanting to control women's bodies issue.

It's a human rights issue.

- Do you make exception for women who become pregnant because of rape, because of incest, do you think that abortion access should be granted to those people?

- So, I believe that rape is a horrible evil that is committed against a woman.

It's a violation of her human rights, and I'm against rape for the exact same reason that I am against abortion, because I believe that abortion violates human rights.

And so even though these questions, they feel like really difficult situations, and they absolutely are.

But the question that I had to ask myself is does the circumstances surrounding your conception, does that change your value as a human being?

And I don't believe that it does.

So I don't believe that we should make exceptions for cases of rape or incest.

I think that women who have been raped, they deserve real care.

And I think that abortion is just kind of like slapping a Band-Aid on top of a really bad wound.

I think they need therapy and they need counseling, and abortion does not help that.

- You're saying that she needs therapy, but she's also now a mother.

- Yes.

- Where she didn't intend to be.

- Yes.

- And you think that that is still the better option?

- I think that it is wrong to directly and intentionally end the life of an innocent baby, and I think that it's a really difficult situation.

I think that if the woman isn't in a place where she can care for the child, adoption is a wonderful and loving option, but I don't believe that there's any situation where this violent act that was committed against this woman means that she can in turn commit a violent action against someone else.

- What are your thoughts around a woman who's having a health issue, who is possibly at risk of a major health issue, or death if she were to carry out a pregnancy?

- I think that that's another one of the big misconceptions that people have about the pro-life movement, is that we want women to choose to go through with a pregnancy that's going to kill them.

That's absolutely not what we want.

We want women to have the best possible healthcare.

And very often that might mean that that healthcare ends the life of that baby.

But there's a big difference between directly and intentionally ending the life of the baby, versus giving a woman the treatment that she needs, and the baby dying as a result of that.

- But they are all called abortion, and some states are limiting access to that abortion.

For instance, in Ohio, a 10 year old who was raped, and couldn't get an abortion, even though her life would be at risk for carrying out that pregnancy.

- So what the pro-life response is is that we want the doctor to see that there are two lives in that instance, in all of the instances, there's a pre-born baby and there's a woman, and we don't expect a woman to sacrifice her life for the child, but we also don't think that it is right to directly and intentionally end the life of a baby, when it is never medically necessary.

So for example, in that instance, where there is maybe someone who's very young, they would work with an OB-GYN to see how far along they could go in their pregnancy.

And then if it's not safe, if it's not possible for them to have a full term delivery, then they would do a preterm delivery.

They would deliver the baby.

They would give the baby the care that it needs, pray and hope that it survives, and there's a big difference between directly going in and dismembering this child.

There's a huge difference morally.

- So you would envision a 10 year old carrying out that pregnancy, as long as possible?

- We would envision anyone doing whatever they can to save the life of the child, except for ending their own life.

- Your faith, obviously is a major motivator, if not the motivator of the work that you're doing, do you believe you're doing God's work?

- Absolutely.

I believe that every single person in this world has dignity, and I believe that our life is incredibly valuable, and I hope that anyone of any faith, or even people who don't have a faith, they understand that life is valuable, and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

- There are people of faith who do support abortion access.

Do you have trouble reconciling that?

- I think that they would have trouble reconciling that.

'cause I think that abortion is a very violent action, and I think that it goes against, at least my faith, I don't know about anyone else's, but it goes against the very tenants of human rights, which I think everyone should understand.

- Meet Rabbi Alexandra Klein.

She had to make an excruciating decision during her second trimester of pregnancy.

This is HerStory.

Rabbi Klein, you are a faith leader in the Jewish community.

You have an abortion story.

Tell us what happened.

- Well, I was pregnant in 2018 with my, what would have been my first child, after several years of a lot of struggles with fertility, and a lot of heartbreak, wanting to be pregnant, and struggling to become pregnant.

And finally, I was pregnant in the winter of 2018, and found out that, at about 20 weeks of pregnancy, was informed by my doctor that the baby had a severe spinal cord defect, and that the spinal cord itself hadn't closed.

And so that the fetus had severe spina bifida, and would not be able to go on to live a healthy life.

And that if the baby were to be born and survive, would not live a life that allowed for any independence, the ability to use the bathroom independently, to walk independently.

And that in addition, the spina bifida would've caused significant cognitive impairment as well.

And so this was heartbreaking.

We had worked for years to try and get pregnant, and were so excited to become parents, but the decision came pretty quickly that we were not prepared to bring a child into the world that was going to suffer so tremendously, and never know a sense of a full life, and the kind of fulfillment, and joy, and discovery that you would hope for, for your child, as a parent.

- So what did you have to weigh, in your mind, in your heart, in your spirit as a faith leader, in making that decision?

- The hardest decision was to decide to terminate a pregnancy that I had really wanted, right?

This was very much a wanted pregnancy.

And to be so far along at that point, I had already been, I had started showing, I had already been anticipating what this human being might become after birth, and what kind of mother I was gonna be able to become.

So after wanting it for so long, and not being able to attain it, the thought that I finally had, and that I was going to have to give that up, was really just devastating.

It was one of the hardest, if not the hardest thing I have ever dealt with in my life.

But as we thought about it, and talked it over with our doctors, my husband and I very quickly came to the conclusion that we would have an abortion, and that I would end my pregnancy, because this was not going to become a life that was able to be fulfilled and meaningful.

And that wasn't what I would want to bring a child into this world, to know so much suffering.

And so we made the decision relatively quickly, and were so fortunate that we live in this area, where access to safe reproductive care, and to safe abortions was available.

I don't take for granted the fact that if I lived in a lot of other places in the country, even in 2018, let alone today, I would not have had access.

This would've been considered a late term abortion, and I wouldn't have access to it.

And by living in New Jersey, where those rights were protected, are protected, I was able to access incredible abortion care with the support of really skilled doctors, and a community around me that supported my decision.

- When we look at the overturning of Roe, you've said that the Christian perspective is not the only perspective when it comes to faith leaders, and the approach to whether or not abortion should be made accessible.

What is the Jewish perspective on abortion?

- The Jewish perspective on abortion is that abortion is allowed, and in cases where the mother's life would be at risk, it can even be required.

That the priority is for the health of the mother, as opposed to an unborn fetus.

And that fetus is not considered, by Jewish tradition, to have the status of being a human being, and a soul, and a life, until after birth.

And so the notion that life begins at conception is a Christian idea, not a Jewish one, and it's important to me that while many of our right wing, in particular, evangelical Christian neighbors believe very deeply that life begins at conception, and that that notion has dictated so much of our public conversation in this country, and has shaped the legislation that has been put into place in this country, there are enormous faith communities in this United States that support a woman's right to have an abortion, support any pregnant person's right to have an abortion, and see the imposition of this Christian idea of life beginning at conception as a real infringement on the practice of Jewish belief.

And so it's not just about my personal experience, or the personal experiences of so many women who have had to experience abortions.

This is also about the ability to freely practice your religion, and for your own religious values to be what guides your life.

For me as a rabbi, and as a faith leader in the Jewish community, I really wanna make sure that people are hearing the Jewish voice, and the progressive religious voice, that is in support of the right to make a choice.

Not that that means that another person has to make a choice, but that for me, if abortion was the right choice for me and my family, which it was, that that choice is protected as much as the right to not choose an abortion, it would be protected for someone else.

- Some women and pregnant people don't know where to turn when they first learn they're pregnant.

Some go to pregnancy crisis centers like this one, Lighthouse Pregnancy Resource Center, that encourage women to continue with their pregnancy.

Debbie, explain what Lighthouse Pregnancy Resource Center is and how it's an alternative for women seeking an abortion.

- Sure.

We're a nonprofit pregnancy resource center that offers services specifically tailored to people who are facing unexpected pregnancies, or under-resourced parents struggling to parent newborns.

So we, our services really start with an ultrasound to medically confirm a pregnancy, really just allowing people to talk through the decision they're making about their pregnancy.

So a lot of times people are coming, and they're not sure whether abortion is the best option for them.

They're feeling a lot of fear, they might be feeling alone.

They might have been abandoned by the partner they were with, or a lot of times they're afraid to tell their parents, or family that are supporting them, that this has happened and you know, don't wanna disappoint people.

So we're here as a safe, confidential place that people can come when they're just finding out they're pregnant, and really think through their different options.

- Is your goal to talk a woman out of an abortion, is that ultimately the goal?

- Our goal would be to make sure a person has the resources to make a fully informed decision, and if they want to continue with the pregnancy, we wanna make that possible for them.

So we don't make a choice for anyone.

We want them to make a fully informed choice.

- One of the criticisms of centers or places that do talk a woman out of an abortion is that then you leave that woman without the resources that she might need to carry on as a mother, but you offer resources, post-pregnancy, and birth.

- Sure, yes.

In fact, last year we gave out over 90,000 diapers, and that's just one of the tangible, practical resources that we offer.

But when someone comes to us, they can come twice a month during their pregnancy, and then through the baby's first year, and receive like healthy parenting resources, emotional support, and then, you know, all the material things it takes to raise a child, the clothing, the diapers, if they're not, we provide breastfeeding instruction.

If they're not doing that, we provide formula, and baby food, cribs, all of the things that it takes to raise a child are available to them, if that's what they need.

Sometimes it's just the emotional support as they're, you know, a single mom, a young mom, but then we have programs that extend way beyond, way beyond the baby's birth.

We have a program for teen moms, the teen moms keep coming, you know, til their children are about four or five years old.

We have a partnership in Patterson that offers a transformational workshop called Getting Ahead in a Just Getting By World.

And we really wanna see parents who are under resourced, get the resources they need to move, really from a survival mentality, to an achievement mentality, to really providing for their families, so their families can thrive.

All of that is offered free.

In fact, the parents in that program get a stipend as they're coming, because we know they're making an investment of time for their future, and their family's future.

- So when you have a young teen, let's say, who comes in, who's pregnant, maybe in a bad relationship, perhaps something worse than that.

Is your council to them always let's try to see this through, let's try to see this pregnancy through?

- It's hard to explain that, because really we want to come alongside them, and ask them what they're thinking, you know, to really get inside their heart, to see what type of decision they're looking at making and why.

We don't want someone to make a decision out of fear.

I think, I find myself saying this a lot, that fear is never a good motivator in any of us.

You know, we all have different beliefs, values we wanna live by, but when we're afraid, we don't always act on what we think is really important.

And so a lot of our resources are to say, don't make a decision out of fear.

Don't make a decision when someone's pressuring you.

- Really looking at your belief system, here as a company, you even personally, do you believe that abortion is ever the answer for an individual, in a case of let's say rape, or incest?

Is that ever something that you would advise?

- Probably personally, it's not something I would advise to someone, because I can't really make that decision for someone else.

I mean, I see every life as valuable.

I see every life as a gift.

I think, you know, each person is created on purpose, for a purpose.

But again, that's my belief system, and that's really why we treat everyone with value and respect when they come in.

I mean, I've counseled people who the pregnancy was a result of rape or some kind of, you know, coercion.

And I, again, that whatever decision they make going forward is not going to undo just the terrible trauma and the injustice that's been done to them already.

So again, you wanna make sure they're making that decision, not in a moment of fear, of anger, of whatever, some kind of reaction, because most cases, you can't undo the abortion.

So you just wanna make sure someone takes the time to slow down.

You know, I've never seen, I've never seen someone come back to Lighthouse and say, I wish I didn't continue with my pregnancy, but over and over again, you know, we see people regret their abortion.

- Kari came to Lighthouse when she was 23, pregnant, and scared.

This is HerStory.

Kari, tell me your story.

How did you end up here at Lighthouse?

- I was in my last year of college, and I came home for summer break, and I started a relationship with somebody, and found myself taking a pregnancy test, which turned out to be positive.

And I had no idea what to do, where to go, and I remembered a fundraiser that I had done at my church at the time, and it was a pregnancy center.

So I decided, you know, I don't know where else to go.

So let me check out this pregnancy center that we raised money for, and see if they could help me.

- Did you ever consider abortion?

- I did, yes.

I actually had two scheduled appointments, one locally in New Jersey, and one in New York City.

Both of which, I did not follow through.

- What made you change your mind?

What made you decide that wasn't the right choice for you?

- Honestly, it was a mix of multiple things, I think, I don't think it was any one thing.

I think the counseling and guidance that I received here at Lighthouse was certainly a big part of it.

I think that my upbringing, and the values, and the values that my parents instilled into me.

And honestly there was somebody at the second appointment that I had scheduled, that one was in New York City, who, you go through the whole process, and then you meet with a counselor before you go ahead with the procedure.

And she actually told me that I don't think that you can go ahead and go through with this, because of some of the things that I was sharing with her.

- So, she sensed that you might regret it.

- Yeah.

- And that was at an abortion clinic?

- It was.

- Looking at what's happening nationally in the overturning of Roe, do you believe that some women should have the choice?

- I believe that everybody's situation is a little bit different, and I'm very thankful that I went through what I went through, so that I can talk to all types of women.

I feel like I'm in a spot where I can understand somebody who goes through with abortion, and I can understand somebody who chooses life.

And I think that, I think that everybody has their own decision to make, but what I always hope for is that somebody will give it more thought than let me just go and get this abortion, and take care of the problem.

I always hope that in conversations with me, I'm not motivating them one way or the other, I'm a neutral voice that can understand where they're coming from, but I'm hoping that they take the time to think about the fact that this is a life that God has created, and what potentially it could, that person could do for the world.

And for that person who's, for the woman who's carrying the child.

- How old were you when you were first pregnant?

- I was 23.

- Did you feel ready to be a mom at that time?

- No, I did not.

- Looking back, have you ever had any regrets about moving forward with the pregnancy?

- No.

- Describe your family life now.

- Now I'm married, and I did not marry the father of the child.

We had actually split up when I was three months pregnant, and I was a single mom for about six years.

And I met my now husband, and I have another son now, Paul, he's four, and Justin is going into middle school.

He's gonna be a teenager on his next birthday.

- How did the people here at Lighthouse help you, not just through the pregnancy, but afterwards?

- Afterwards, there was a lot of support for not only myself and my family, but also for resources needed for my son.

I was given a lot of different, you know, diapers and really anything I came to them and asked for, or I needed because, you know, I hadn't quite finished college yet.

So funds were a little tight, and they certainly rallied around me, and supported me with whatever it is I needed for the baby, clothing, diapers, wipes.

I breastfed, so I didn't need formula, but if I had chosen to not breastfeed, they had formula.

Anything you can think of for a baby.

- Looking back, you talked about your family dynamic, and you were afraid to go to your parents.

You were raised with those values.

Did you find that you were met with support when you did tell your parents?

- A little bit of both.

I don't think it was 100% support, and I don't think it was 100% not support.

I think it was something that kind of had to evolve over time and it was, you know, a little bit easier for some people in my family, and not so easy for others in my family.

- And yet, in spite of maybe their disappointment or their judgment, you felt you were doing the right thing.

- Yes.

- Knew you were doing the right thing.

- Yes.

- What do you think that conversation would've sounded like if you told them you considered an abortion?

- I was open about it.

I did tell them that, I actually just, once I left the appointment, the second one in the city, I told my family that evening, and I told them what I had gone to attempt to do earlier in the day.

- What's your message to someone watching who is unsure right now, what they wanna do, maybe doesn't feel ready to be a mom?

- I would say, seek guidance.

Don't make the decision alone, and take adequate time to think about it.

And if you're religious, pray on it, before making a decision that could change a lot of things about your life.

- Even though abortion access is now guaranteed in New Jersey, women across the state are feeling the ripple effects of the Dobbs decision that overturned Roe.

We spoke with a group of women, who span three generations, about what this means to them.

I wanna start with you, Barbara, you were an activist, an abortion activist, before the landmark Roe decision.

What does it feel like for you today to be living through this overturning of Roe?

- I'm devastated to be perfectly honest, when this ruling came down, the expectation was there, that probably it would happen, but when it happened, it just was a gut punch.

And knowing what we had gone through, I mean, I was there pre Roe v. Wade, so before the 50-year ruling happened, and I know what it was like for people who could not get a safe abortion, and I know how we fought for women's rights, for reproductive rights, and to see that just be taken away with like a stroke of a pen by a Supreme Court that really does not get it, does not get the will of the people, which I've always felt should prevail.

And most people in this country supported Roe v. Wade, and still do.

- When you say that women didn't have access to safe abortion, do you believe that banning abortion stops abortion?

- Oh, no, definitely not.

It'll drive people into the old back alley abortions, to, you know, using clothes hangers, and going to doctors who might not be really legitimate.

And I know what happened.

I know what happened to friends who did that before Roe v. Wade, and who were scarred for life, physically, emotionally, psychologically.

And I just, it's gonna happen.

It's definitely going to happen, and the states that still allow it are gonna be overrun with people from other areas where it's not allowed, and it's just, yeah, we're turning back the clock, and I've always believed that we should always continue to live for today, but look for the future, and make it a better future.

- Karina, you were essentially born into this as the law of the land.

What does it mean to you?

What does it feel like to you now, as a mom of a young lady also, to see this massive shift?

- You know, it's interesting, for me, it's kind of a twofold issue.

I am a first generation American, and so my mother came from the Dominican Republic in the early '70s, when the Roe v. Wade decision was made.

And so she was looking to come to America for a better tomorrow, for a better future, right?

And many of the liberties that she came and was seeking here in America, one of them being women's rights, where in the Dominican Republic, abortion has been illegal since the 1800s, those liberties are now being taken away.

And so when I think about my parents coming to America for the American dream, it's not what it was, and what they were looking for originally.

And I think on the other side of the token, it's being a mom of a 17 year old girl, a girl that is soon to be entering college.

And unfortunately, many women are victims of sexual assaults during their college years.

And so God forbid, if something were to happen to my daughter, or her classmates, I'd want her to have the resources, the legal resources, to be able to choose whatever decision she is looking for, or her classmates are looking for, and in fact, being that she is entering her senior year, this fall, we have talked about the locations that she's going to college, and we've decided as a family, that she needs to go to college where women have rights.

- Yeah, that's my question for you, Giselle.

As you think about where you wanna go to school, do you feel right now that this decision has limited the geography of where you might wanna go?

- Yeah, absolutely.

I was actually looking at UMiami for a while, and once the Roe v. Wade was overturned, I could no longer look at that as an option.

And right now all my college options are in New York City, where it is okay, and it is legal, and as well in New Jersey where, you know, I know that I'm safe to have rights here.

- What does the conversation sound like among your friends?

How are you all processing this, as you're heading out into your adulthood?

- I think it's just shocking, because we've never known anything else other than being able to do so.

And you know, it's, on the other hand though, it is kind of sad because I feel like some kids are not talking about it enough and I'm so glad and happy to be able to, you know, publicly speak about this.

- Do you think that your friends have yet hit the point where they understand what this decision means in their lives, could mean in their lives?

- I don't think so.

I think a lot of us don't realize what it means, 'cause some people don't research it enough, but like I said, I know that this affects my future, and I don't know what else they're gonna take away from women's rights.

- Karina, we live in such a polarized society right now.

There is not much common ground between kind of Ds and Rs across the country.

And this perhaps is one of the most hot button issues, where it's an extremely polarizing topic.

How do you have conversations among your friends, among your peers, maybe who don't agree with you?

- It's a very good question, and I think when it comes to these really polarizing issues, you need to find the common ground, right?

And what I mentioned earlier about women, college-aged women that face sexual assaults on campus or off campus, but within that age range, I mean that is a common ground topic that is affecting parents of young women, right?

And so if we can talk about what are the options that she has, and I think that some parents who perhaps may be against abortion, but when they think about their own child being sexually assaulted or raped, and what is the recourse or what are the options afterwards?

I think we would find that some of those parents would actually look at abortion as an option for them.

- Barbara, as you look at a young lady sitting next to you, who's just beginning in life, and you talk about the people you've experienced, go through these traumatic, self-induced abortions, what are your concerns for the next generation?

What advice would you pass down?

- Well, you're doing the right thing by speaking out.

You know, it's great to see that, to see young people who are not afraid to speak the truth, what it means to them.

I am concerned, because I know that, I know what it was like.

I was part of the generation in the late '60s that fought the Vietnam War, that marched against the Vietnam War.

I was the generation that burned our bras for women's rights, to stand up.

I don't think I've worn a bra since then.

And I look at what happened to, as I said to having a friend, you know, have a back alley abortion, and never being able to conceive for the rest of her life.

You know, she was 16 years old when this happened, and I don't want that to happen to you or your friends.

I think the most important thing that you all can do, and you're getting to that age is vote.

Make sure we vote.

Elections have consequences, as we see with what happened with the Supreme Court.

So I would hope that people get involved and they realize, you know, that they can make a difference, that we can make a difference with our vote.

We can make a difference if we march, you know, if we speak out and speak up and you know, just be there for other people.

So I'm here for you too.

I mean, I've been through a lot, and I'm just happy to see that you will be carrying the mantle.

You know, I'm ready to let it down at my age.

I can't be out there marching all the time anymore.

So we really need, you know, to have our young women to kind of have our backs this time.

[soft piano music] - I'm here now with two senators to talk about abortion access here in New Jersey, and how our state is responding to other states limiting or even banning access to abortion.

I'm gonna introduce Republican Senator Holly Schepisi, thank you for being with us.

- Thank you.

- And democratic Senator, Nia Gill.

Thank you for being with us.

- Thank you.

- Senator Gill, you sponsored two bills that would actually expand access for women or pregnant people coming to New Jersey, seeking abortion care from out of state.

Can you just quickly explain what those two bills do?

- Yes, the governor recently signed them into law.

So anyone from out of state who seeks an abortion here will not be extradited, or brought back to this home state where they say the abortion is illegal, and we will not provide any kind of records, privacy records, personal records to the state where the abortion is deemed illegal, and if they seek to get that information from the provider, so we have codified and protected both the providers in the state of New Jersey, from outside extradition, as well as the woman seeking the abortion.

- Senator Schepisi, you have described yourself as a unicorn on this issue.

And I just want you to give us a sense of where you stand and why.

- So as a Republican female in the state, there are only three of us, actually, in the Senate.

I'm not pro-abortion, but I'm also not pro-forcing somebody to give birth.

I think a lot of the laws being passed are gonna have significant detrimental impact on women's health.

We see laws being passed with no exception for a child who's been raped, for a woman who you know, has no other means of getting through a really traumatic type of situation.

So I ended up voting yes on one of Senator Gill's bills and I've taken a lot of flack for it, but I think it's important for women to speak out.

I was sexually assaulted when I was a teenager.

If, God forbid, I had become pregnant, and had been forced to carry a rapist's baby, that's unconscionable, and so my own personal life experiences, you know, have kind of guided me on this, but I do think we've gone way too far in some of the bills that are limiting women's healthcare right now.

- So let me drill into that a bit further.

Do you believe New Jersey should be a safe haven, a place where women from out of state can come, and do you believe those protections are the right thing?

- I do.

I mean, that's why I voted for it.

I don't support late term abortion for any reason.

But me personally, I'm against that, but I'm also thoroughly against prosecuting women.

We just saw the instance with the 10 year old who had to cross state lines.

She had been raped, and then all of a sudden for political expediency, her doctor's being vilified with, you know, an elected official saying we're gonna come after the doctor, and putting her up there as like public enemy number one.

This cannot be a pathway that we go down for our nation.

You're gonna drive medical professionals out of the field.

You're gonna drive women into literally dying in back alleys again.

And so I don't believe that a woman who is desperate should be prosecuted, or a doctor who's providing legal care to somebody should be prosecuted.

- Senator, what is your take on right now, progressives in the Senate asking the president to by executive order, create several other protections for medical providers who want to provide abortion pills, let's say, for ectopic pregnancies, things like that.

Do you believe executive order is the response right now nationally?

- Executive order may be the only response nationally, until we can do it statutorily.

But I think there's also a very important thing.

The overturning of Roe was based upon the issue of privacy, which means that the next right to go will be the right of gay marriage.

The next right after that is the right you have with respect to the secrecy of your family relationships.

And of course we know that the Supreme Court Justice probably won't touch Loving v. Virginia, since that right gave him the right to marry his wife, because interracial marriages were outlawed.

So if you look at it, a woman who is a CEO in a state that outlaws abortion has more control over her business than she does over her body.

And I think that goes to this point of the right and power of women to control their bodies.

It's almost like the fugitive slave laws.

When slaves ran away to do what, freedom, there were certain laws that said, you must return that slave to the state where slavery is not outlawed.

And there were states that took the stand that we will not do that, because there's some fundamental right here of a human being, and of freedom.

And so in that sense, both in a legal, in a historical sense, it is much like the fugitive slave laws.

You cross that line, and you will be returned, and women must stand up.

And all people 'cause equality is like air.

Everybody has it or nobody has it, but we have to protect this right, because we have to protect the rights of gay marriage, and we have to protect the rights of all others.

- What's happening right here, where two women across political aisles are somewhat aligned on this issue.

We don't see that nationally.

Do you think that there will be a point where there is some kind of agreement on this issue nationally?

- I would hope so.

You know, my concern is we keep seeing both sides take such extreme positions on things that everybody who's in the middle doesn't wanna speak out, because it seems to be the most extreme positions, which are guiding legislative initiatives throughout our entire country right now.

And we need people who are willing to stand up and go enough.

We need to sit down, we need to talk.

We need to have agreement on certain things because you know, powerful lobby groups on both sides are the ones driving these initiatives.

And it's because of primaries, it's because people wanna be, you know, the darling of their own party.

And sometimes our day to day lives are far more important than what makes you a darling of your a political party.

And we need people to stand up, speak out, and go you know what?

Let's come to same policy on some of these issues.

- So sitting together, talking, and getting the more moderate perspectives.

- And power, and electing people to the Senate so that we can pass the statutory protections that the Supreme Court won't give us.

We are not without recourse.

This is a representative democracy.

And at the end of the day, the power is in the hands of the people.

- Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman has been fighting for women's rights as an activist, even before she was elected to Congress.

Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman, in the week of the Roe decision being overturned, there's been outcry from Democrats.

You, and several of your colleagues, actually demonstrated in front of the Supreme Court.

Just a few weeks ago, you were actually arrested.

What does this decision mean to you?

- This decision scares me, and concerns me on a number of levels.

First of all, I thought that this was decided, and the justices that are sitting there now, when they were going through their questioning before the Senate committee, they agreed that this was decided law.

And I thought, I didn't expect them to lie like that, and then get onto the Supreme Court and do what they did.

And so it concerns me that this next generation of young women are gonna have fewer rights than I have if we can't codify Roe v. Wade, which means that we need more senators who would be willing to vote on the issue and who would be willing to not worry about the filibuster to impede the vote on it.

And so it means to me that there's just a lot more work that has to be done, and that whatever can be done to protect women's access to abortions, and any other kind of contraception healthcare related to that, we've got to work with the president, with his executive orders, states with their legislative entities, and we need, us safe haven states, need to figure out how can we facilitate, and help and protect women who are in need of an abortion, but who live in a red state, or live in a state where there's a prohibition against abortion.

- Yeah, tell us a bit more about the response from the White House, because a lot of this feels pretty fragile.

The president responding with executive orders, but what is he doing for instance, to protect medication abortion?

- Well, he said that they'll do whatever they have to do to ensure that A, if a woman is in a critical situation, that the healthcare providers should be allowed to, and not interfered with in giving them that.

He wants to ensure that women do have access to contraception and they will do whatever, he will do whatever he can.

But at the end of the day, we need legislation.

We need Congress to codify a woman's access and a woman's right to not only contraception, but to the morning after pill that prevents you from getting pregnant, as well as if, and when, you need to terminate a pregnancy.

But the president is limited.

I mean, that's why we have three branches of government, that have their lanes, their responsibilities.

In my opinion, the Supreme Court overreached here.

And it is a very damaging decision, and it is something that as a Congress, a collective, the Senate and the House, we're gonna have to deal with.

- So there's two kind of responses that are possible here.

One is stacking the Supreme Court.

Are you in favor of that?

- You know, I am in favor of expanding the Supreme Court, because I believe that we need a balance on the Supreme Court.

The results of what we have right now come about from just decades of planning and plotting, and dark money, and investing, and all that kind of stuff with very, very right wing conservative groups.

And so these are very young people that are on the Supreme Court, one of whom has really no business being there, actually, two.

So I believe that it is time, just like it was in the past, to expand the number of people on the Supreme Court.

In addition to just, this is a critical situation, and we fear that not only are these privacy rights gonna be jeopardized, but there are others on the hook.

- In your lifetime, you've seen the Supreme Court grant access to abortion.

You've now seen the Supreme court take it away.

Do you believe in your lifetime, you will see abortion access codified into law?

- Yes.

- You do.

- I do.

I'm expecting to see that in the next Congress.

- Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman.

Thank you so much.

- Thank you for having me.

[upbeat music]