I'm Angela Yvonne and on this episode of Vegan Pop Eats, we are talking past, present, and future.

We're going to have a conversation with the queen of vegans, knowing the choice between faux meats and whole foods, and lab-grown meat.

Because it is dope over here on the green side.

[Music] I never put food and health in one sentence until I had to.

Until my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer.

Although she didn't survive, her strength survived in me, and I wanted to learn to be more intentional with the things that I ate and how I lived.

All to honor her.

That is why I became vegan.

It wasn't for the animals, it wasn't for the planet.

It was because I knew health was the only currency that mattered.

This is more than a lifestyle.

It is a love letter to my mother, Lilly Pearl Colley, and to every version of me that is healing.

[Music] Now the word vegan means different things to different people.

To some, it's life and liberation.

To others, it means sacrifice.

But that's where we're missing the plot.

Moving towards a plant-forward lifestyle is not a life of lack.

It's a life of abundance.

Abundant options, abundant self-care for you, the planet, and animals.

Now we're on our way to meet Freya Dinshah .

She has been dubbed the queen of veganism, and we are celebrating her legacy and her retirement from the American Vegan Society.

So let's go.

Freya is retiring from her life's work that she created with her late husband, H.J.

Dinshah.

They founded the American Vegan Society in 1960.

[Music] You are retiring from your legacy at the American Vegan Society.

How does that feel?

Well, it's been a number of years since I became vegan and started working with the American Vegan Society, which goes back to 1960.

Oh, wow.

And I am now 83, and I am retiring from executive duties and so on.

I will still be active as a vegan.

Of course.

But there are plenty of new young people who are going to run the organization, and a lot's happening in the vegan world.

So I'm very pleased to see that.

You get to rest.

Yes.

[Laughter] What made you want to be a vegan?

Well, I grew up as a vegetarian, and when I was a teenager, I started writing to a young man in America, and that was Jay, whom I was later to marry.

Okay.

And he was also a vegetarian, but he had become vegan.

And when he told me the reasons why, I decided to become vegan, too.

You were vegan before it was even cool.

Yes.

So you had to make your milks, you had to make your protein.

What are your thoughts about how the movement has progressed?

Well, it's much easier for people to be vegan nowadays.

Right.

Because a lot of the things that they're looking for are available in the supermarkets.

In the early days, either they weren't there or you had to find a health food store to find them or make them yourselves.

So you're dubbed the queen of vegan.

What does that mean to you, and how did you get the name?

Well, I was interviewed for an article in New Jersey Monthly.

They came up with the title.

People liked it.

Do you like it?

I was flattered, but I don't need a title like that.

Now that you have experienced so much, you were there when it wasn't cool, you're here, and we have all of these different options.

How do you see the future of the movement?

Well, the most important thing to my thinking is what happens to the animals and that we shouldn't be killing and abusing them.

Right.

And a really good benefit is that we're using much less of the Earth's resources.

Yeah.

And with the problems of global warming, we could make a lot of difference if many people move towards a plant-based vegan diet.

To have one action, one thing that can produce so much positive change in the world means that we have a good future ahead if we will just see that.

Yes.

And follow that.

And I think it's coming about.

You did a good job.

You did a good job.

[Laughter] Freya's daughter, Anne, is following in the footsteps of her parents, taking over as the new CEO of the American Vegan Society.

So what are you going to do different than the legacy of your parents?

Because those are big shoes to fill.

They are very big shoes.

Would you like to hear about the shoes first?

I was just about to ask you about those fabulous red shoes you have on.

Okay, well, for the camera, let me just show them.

- Okay.

- A little bit of leg there.

- Okay.

- So these red shoes are to remind you of my dad's blood-saturated shoes in 1957 when he visited a slaughterhouse in Philadelphia and he went vegan on the spot.

So it's a little nod to my parents, to my dad's blood-saturated shoes.

- Right.

-So I get to do things Yet those are shoes that he would never wear.

- Right.

- So I get to do things a little different.

How does it feel to be part of such a strong legacy of the American Vegan Society?

It feels wonderful.

I like being vegan.

I like being an example of what you can be.

But I just kind of live my life.

I don't go around with a big billboard telling you that you have to be vegan.

But if you're ready for the information about how to go vegan, then come to AmericanVegan.org.

Come to some of our events.

Have a great time.

Visit us in Philadelphia at American Vegan Center.

And we'll show you what it's about.

It's beautiful to be among a lot of the vegans in the community and see how passionate that they are.

Thank you very much.

Thanks for having us.

Okay, this is Vegan Pop Eats on the street.

And we want to know, why do you think people hate the word "vegan"?

I think it is a word that causes them to question their own morality and they might feel threatened by it.

Sometimes people get beyond that dislike when they learn more about it.

And there's more and more ways to learn more about veganism.

So you're related to Freya.

Yes, I'm her grandson.

So how long have you been vegan?

My whole life.

So what do you love about being vegan?

I like being vegan because of all the interesting new foods that are coming out.

Did your mom make you do it?

No.

Okay.

[Laughter] Changing the way that you eat can be overwhelming.

But veganizing things that are familiar to you can make the journey so much easier.

For me, it's comfort food.

And I love a great burger.

I'm going to take you to two of my favorite spaces, Jerrell's Better Burger and Urban Vegan Kitchen.

Both doing burgers differently, but both are changing the way that we see food and how we see food made from plants.

Jerrell chose to use the trendy faux meats like Impossible.

Today, we're heading over to see why he made that decision and how he's flipping the script on what a vegan burger can be.

Who's knocking at my window that hard?

It's Vegan Pop Eats.

That was a ghetto knock.

I know!

I love it!

You got my attention now.

Yes.

So I'm here because you know your burgers are fire, but I want to make my own burger.

It's going to be hard to beat the best burger in New York City, but I'll give you a shot.

Vegan Pop Eats always gives a little flavor, so you might want to put it on the menu.

Come on in.

First thing you're going to do is open this drawer right here.

Okay.

And you're going to grab your meatball.

Okay.

Alright.

Throw it on the grill.

Just throw it on the grill?

That's it.

Just like that.

Why don't you put a little muscle in that?

Oh.

A little more.

There you go.

Okay.

And then you're going to take it off.

Yes!

So now I flip it?

Just flip it right up.

Oh my God!

Oh man!

I'm messing it up!

But it's still going to be good.

Oh!

That's definitely Angela's burger.

That's crazy!

Alright, well we're going to save it with the cheese.

The cheese is going to make everything come together.

It's going to bring all the... Alright.

On top of there?

On top of here.

And smoke it up.

Oh!

Smoke it up!

There you go.

So that's what gets it... You burned my damn kitchen down.

A little bit of smoke.

Just a little bit of smoke.

What was all... Look at that.

Look at that.

Booyah!

Look at that masterpiece right there.

Oh, that's a fire.

Slide that down right there.

That's fire.

So we're all done here.

I'm going to package this up for you.

You go have a seat and I'll join you.

I'm just going to wrap this up for you and I'll bring it out to you.

Yes!

I'm ready.

Excited?

Yes!

Ready?

You ready?

We loaded it up!

Yeah, I came with some extras.

How did you know?

I got you.

Let me see if you know how to do a burger.

Hold on.

Hold on.

Hold on.

That's good, right?

You know what's the real secret?

What?

We cook it in real bacon grease.

Don't tell nobody.

Bacon?

No, I'm joking.

So, you decided to use the traditional, trendy brands, Impossible Meat, but I like to call them transitional foods.

How do you feel about someone calling this a transitional burger?

My take on it is pretty much if you like Impossible or whatever they call it, the faux meat, you probably enjoy that better than the home, obviously, homemade, plant-based alternatives.

But my burger is banging.

Yeah?

You know what they're going to do?

People are going to transition to another burger here.

They're going to go from a little better to an OG.

I see where you're going.

And they're eventually going to transition to a super better.

I exactly see where you're going.

And that's with chili on it, bacon, jalapenos.

Do you think it's a transitional burger?

How do you feel about it?

So, for me, now that I've been in this life for about eight and a half, nine years, you know, this is a treat for me.

But I just feel like this is something that I would have eaten when I first started.

At Jarrell's, 85% of our customers are not vegan or plant-based.

- Right.

So, just to have something that they can relate to or replace that one burger, you know, for like obviously, you know, like meatless Mondays or whatever.

Okay.

Introduce them to plant-based food that tastes like real meat.

It's going to take a while because I want to hear a little bit more about what you got going on.

What a lot of people don't know is that my love for animals comes from, I went to school to be a pre-vet.

Okay.

All my life, my father, rest his soul, he worked at an animal hospital.

He was a general manager of an animal hospital.

Oh, nice.

So, I've been working in an animal hospital since I was 13.

Went to high school for animal science and then also went to college to be a veterinarian.

But those grades was hard.

Hard.

So, you're not a vegan.

Oh.

So, what made you want to get into the vegan space?

Well, completely transparent, I do practice a heavy plant-based diet.

Okay.

So, I rarely eat any animal products, but I'm not 100% plant-based or 100% vegan.

Okay.

I believe even when I started the concept of Jerrell's, everybody has their own journey.

Right.

Everyone has to start somewhere.

Right.

Why not start at Jerrell's ?

I really enjoy that you have made a space for anyone and everyone to come in because that's truly what the vegan lifestyle is about.

You know what?

I really enjoyed my day with you today.

Yeah.

This was so lit.

The burgers is fire.

Like wild.

You're fire.

And, yeah.

I appreciate you.

Thank you.

Thank you for everything.

You know what?

I think that I should get a year-long subscription to your shapes.

I got you.

I think I should just be able to walk up to the window and just be like.

Yeah, I have a monthly plan for that.

What does the word vegan mean to you?

It just means someone who's concerned either ethically or sustainably about what they eat, what goes, where their food comes from, what it's made out of.

I think it needs to become more universal of a term and kind of how like exercising is good for you.

Just kind of building it into your regular routine, just like your regular menu is important for everybody because we really do need to reduce the amount of meat consumption in America.

I think it's a great word.

I honestly wish I was vegan myself, but it's hard.

What makes it so hard?

I mean, I can barely cook for myself right now.

Veganism has always been a disruptor, challenging the way that we see food, where it comes from, and how it's made.

We're here at Urban Vegan Kitchen, the very first place that showed me what plant-forward living feels like and what it looks like.

David Tianga has been rooted in the whole food vegan lifestyle for years.

His restaurant, Urban Vegan Kitchen, was created to be a disruptor, something that challenges the norm of what vegan food could be.

Dave!

I haven't seen you in so long!

What's going on?

How you been?

Yes, I've been great.

Let's get in here so we can chat.

Yes!

Urban Vegan Kitchen is a place that welcomes all.

And sometimes in the vegan space, you don't get that sort of welcome.

When people come to you and talk about Urban Vegan Kitchen, what is the one thing that just stays on your mind about how you've represented the culture?

That was definitely intentional.

When I was first starting to try to become vegan, let's say 30 years ago, because it was a process, I loved the food, I loved the whole concept of being optimal with what you eat.

But yeah, being a Latino from New York and being from the hip-hop generation, the spaces I would go to, I definitely never felt like this was made for me, let's say, or people like me, if you want to say that.

So when I had the opportunity and I was blessed to be able to make a space, I made it an intention to represent people that probably weren't being represented enough in that space at that time.

And we in many ways made it harder on ourselves because we really wanted to promote something that we felt at that time was being underrepresented inside the vegan space.

A lot of the vegan restaurants rely on the Impossible Meats and the Beyond Meats, and I like to say that those are transitional foods.

But with you, when you come here, it's real food, real talk.

Why was that important for your burger to be a representation of the integrity of the lifestyle?

I don't fault other vegan restaurants for using Impossible and Beyond.

I mean, the minute that you open up a vegan restaurant, you've got to know you're doing something pretty much impossible.

I mean, 1% of the population in the world identifies themselves as vegan.

So you're not opening an Italian restaurant or a Chinese food restaurant where you're pretty much guaranteed people coming in at least trying you out.

With vegan, you're setting up for the fight.

Like, you're going to have to drag a lot of people in here.

So we just wanted to make sure that we were as optimal as possible when those people came in.

Yes, indeed.

The infamous Magic Ring Burger.

The main ingredients are mushroom, fennel, barley.

We try to do as many real ingredient foods here as possible.

Oh, this is a big burger day.

Yeah, this is a big burger.

So let me.

You know how we do.

Let me go ahead and have love.

And you make the onion rings fresh too.

Of course.

Oh, my God.

Hold on.

Mm hmm.

You're acting like it's the first one you eat.

You know what?

Everything is the first time.

Feels like the first time.

Feels like the first time.

That's the goal.

Oh, my gosh.

And it's so fresh.

Well, thank you, Dave.

I really appreciate your thought.

You're going to make me cry.

It's a full circle moment because you supported Vegan Pop Eats from the beginning.

You pointed for me even when you're not pointing for me.

I appreciate that.

I admire you.

You know, you keep you know, you have something that a lot of people don't.

You know, you keep going no matter what.

You know, you keep you keep it moving forward, you know, and you keep doing it.

So, you know, I think you're a very exceptional representation of what we're trying to do here.

- Exceptional.

Yes.

Cut!

Cultivated meat, which is basically they're using cells to make meat to stop the suffering of animals.

Would you eat the meat?

I yeah, I would try it.

That would be one of the things that would definitely sway my decision.

I would love to not hurt animals and get to eat meat.

So that sounds awesome.

While I'm not against it, I don't necessarily see myself incorporating it into my diet.

Now, there are labs all over the world working on solutions for health and agriculture.

We are here at Rutgers to see Dr. Joseph Freeman and his team knows all about it.

Cruelty free meat.

Now that is a game changer.

Dr. Joseph Freeman and his team at Rutgers are leading the charge in making cultivated meat a reality.

Cultivated meat is now the new buzzword in the food space.

But what does that exactly mean and what can it mean for people who became vegan because of animal suffering?

Well, it's really simple.

The processes that our bodies and animals bodies used to make meat or make muscle.

We just kind of simplify that and we do it in the lab.

So muscles are made from cells that come together to form a tissue.

We take those same types of cells from a living animal, put them into dishes and give them the same types of nutrients.

And so they come together, grow a tissue that can then be cooked and eaten.

The muscle that we're growing in our lives is pretty much identical to the muscles that are in and these animals such as cows.

So what you get in terms of protein levels, in terms of overall nutrition, is the same thing in our lab as what you would get from something that you just buy in your supermarket.

So how will this help the planet?

Because climate change is real.

Right.

It is real.

Yes.

That's another story.

So I think one of the ways is that is just think about in terms of square foot, square foot is your area.

OK. You know, you take if you're using cows or working with them with livestock, you need acres and acres of lands.

They need to move.

They need to graze.

But if we're talking about something in my lab, our tissue culture area, just let's say, you know, can be just 100 square feet.

If I only want to make, let's say, 50 pounds of meat, I can make sure I can only make 50 pounds of meat.

And so because I can scale up or scale down, that gives me better control over the amount of waste I'm producing.

So if this was to come to a grocery store, what would be the cost?

As is it would be really expensive tissue culture - Like caviar expensive?

Probably more than caviar expensive.

Oh, if we're looking at and this is kind of why we're years away, not just scale up, but kind of bringing down the cost.

Tissue cultures are very intense, labor intensive and expensive techniques, because once again, all the nutrients that animals bodies normally produce, you're bringing in on your own.

All the amino acids and the minerals and vitamins, you're actually providing those on the spot.

And so that take that cost money.

So basically, when it first hits the market, it's going to be for a very niche type of it's going to be very boutique.

Oh, wow.

Until you get to the point where you can sort of mass produce.

OK. And find ways to bring to bring culture costs down.

So there's going to be things on the black market in the corner.

I got you.

- I hope not.

I hope no one has a trench coat and they open it up, there's steaks and like chicken legs on one side.

- I got your filet mignon.

I got your wagyu.

I got it.

Dr. Angela is ready.

Dr. Freeman brought me back to his lab and after the introduction to his apprentice, Nikhil, I got the insider scoop to the meat growing process.

So in this case, we have a bioprinter with multiple nozzles over here.

And if you want to give it a try, you have to press that button right over there.

- Aha!

So with this.

So this right here, you're printing muscle.

Yes.

Well, we're printing a gel construct that muscle can be grown on top of.

- OK. - So we can adapt this technology for cultivated meat.

So instead of using human cells, we can use cells, bovine cells from cows, we can use cells from pigs for pork or chicken for chicken, essentially grow them within or on top of these scaffolds and then provide the right nutrients.

So then we can create that type of meat.

So here we have the prints that you just printed.

And then second nozzle with another naturally occurring polymer in red over here.

During the tour, I got to see how muscle tissue strength is tested.

The key is getting the right texture and consistency.

So if you're biting into, say, a burger or a piece of steak, you don't want something that's soft like jello.

You don't want something that's hard or crunchy like bone.

So making sure that our the meat that we're making has the right type of texture.

Make sure that that eating will be an enjoyable experience.

Last stop on the tour.

Seeing how the meat grows.

So basically what you have in your hand is a developing piece of meat, a developing tissue.

Oh, wow.

OK, so next step.

- Let's load it into the - Loaded in.

So under the right culture conditions, these cells will grow into meat anywhere from four to eight weeks.

So we'll hit the switch and we'll go from viewing it here.

- Yes.

To viewing it on the computer.

Look at that.

So you can see all the individual cells and you see the circular ones are some of the cells myoblasts.

They're actually splitting.

They're splitting.

And if we put them under the right conditions, alter the stuff that we feed them, they'll start to fuse together.

And then that's what gives you meat.

I've learned something today.

Thank you so much again.

I know that you're busy saving the world and I'll be back to pick up my certificate.

- Yes, Dr. Yvonne My work was so hard today.

We'll see you at commencement.

Yes, commencement.

Yes, indeed.

I'm so excited about it.

Thank you so much for the usage of the coat and we will see you again.

Thank you.

Now, there's no one way to living more of a plant forward life.

We spoke to Freya Dinshah, who was vegan when it wasn't even cool, to Jarell and David, redefining what food can be, to Dr. Joseph Freeman, showing the possibilities of science without ever harming an animal.

Veganism is not a one stop shop.

There are so many roads to get to where you're wanting to be.

Now, the destination is the same.

More compassion, less harm to animals, being good to the planet and yourself.

The future of food is being written by all of us, bite by bite and choice by choice.

I'm Angela Yvonne and this is Vegan Pop Eats.

You got to taste the transitional shake right now.

See, now you got to wear it out because I said it.

Transition or not, this is it.

The oatmeal get the pass, right?

The oatmeal get the pass.

Exactly.

So, we're going to be able to at least push a button and just.

We'll see if we have you push a button.

Yes, I'll put it in my resume.

I was a Rutgers button pusher.

I'll write a recommendation for you.

Thank you.