- We're pleased to be joined for the first time by Sam Oliker-Friedland, who's the CEO of a terrific organization called the Institute for Responsive Government.

Sam, good to see you.

- Good to see you too.

Thanks for having me.

- You got it.

Website's up.

Tell folks what the organization is and why it's more important now than ever before.

- Yeah, we do policy implementation and local organizing work to make a election administration that works and a government that people don't hate.

This is incredibly important right now when our system of government is more under threat than it's ever been before.

The 8,000 or so local election administrators whose job it is to run a free and fair election this year, need everything we can do to support them in that endeavor and we're here to provide it.

After that election, our job is to actually make sure that those elections create a government that people really like and that make them want to go and participate again the next time.

- All right, you ready for a little devil's advocate?

- Absolutely.

- President Trump, federal government says, "You know what, eh, the 2024 election was stolen.

"We don't trust the process "and so we are gonna get involved.

"ICE is gonna get involved.

"We are gonna monitor the elections, we're gonna make sure "they are free and fair "and we support something called the Save Act."

Nobody knows what it is, but let's just argue devil's advocate.

People have to prove they're American citizen.

They're an American citizen before they vote.

What the heck could be wrong with any of that, Sam?

- I have some bad news, good news on this.

And the bad news is that that's not devil's advocate.

That's what the president absolutely wants to do.

He's made it very clear that he wants to intervene in this election and it's completely understandable to be worried about that.

The good news is that the federal government doesn't run elections.

- Oh, why is it understandable?

Why is that understandable?

- Oh, it's just understandable to be concerned about it.

Like if that's what you're hearing in the news, I think it's completely understandable to be worried that that's gonna happen.

And I think that's absolutely what the president wants.

The good news is that we run elections at the state level and most importantly at the city and county level.

And so you have 8,000 or so Democrats and Republicans who very much believe in running a free and fair election and who aren't gonna stand for federal intervention when the federal government just doesn't have any role under our constitution in running elections.

- The Save Act.

- Yeah.

- I don't know what's gonna... We're taping this toward the back end of April.

I don't know what's gonna happen within Congress, but say someone says, "Look, all it says "is that someone has to prove that they're a citizen."

What else does it say, Sam, that concerns you?

- Yeah, and that's not the piece that concerns me.

So the law already says that only citizens can vote in federal elections.

That law is already enforced.

And if they wanted to, there are even better sort of tech forward ways to verify voter citizenship without putting a giant burden on voters to do a bunch of paperwork.

But that's really what the Save Act does.

So what the Save Act does is says, "I have to bring my birth certificate," which I don't know about you.

I have no idea where my birth certificate is.

It says I have to bring my birth certificate to show an election official before I vote.

It says, election officials who are already overworked and underpaid have to process all of that paperwork before they vote.

It just doesn't make sense as a way to verify citizenship.

There's nothing wrong with verifying voter citizenship.

That's a really important part of the process that's already happening.

This is just a dumb way to do it.

- So lemme try this.

What is the danger of consistently questioning the results of an election?

If I win, it was a fair election.

If I lose, something must be fishy.

People are voting multiple times, illegal.

People who are here illegally are voting.

If government leaders at the highest level consistently question the results of an election, what is the danger for our representative democracy?

- I think there's a real danger, and I think your question is exactly right.

So a lot of this is like, you know how like a toddler is crying because they're like chips are gone, but really they're crying 'cause they're tired.

I think that's a lot of what you're seeing here.

You're seeing a lot of people saying, "Oh, the result, "the election was rigged, the results are fake."

Is this because they're mad that they lost an election?

And I think you see this all the time, that when people lose an election that they wanted to win, they start questioning the results.

The danger here is really for both the election officials themselves and for the health of our democracy.

When we can't be good winners, it means that the entire system gets less secure and that all we hear instead of, "Wow, "this was an incredibly safe, secure election," is we hear the whining and that's dangerous for our democracy and it's dangerous for those election officials who are gonna get threatened because of the rhetoric that's sort of permeating the space.

- You know, growing up, I grew up in Newark, New Jersey.

My family was very involved in local civic and political affairs, and I always remember going to vote at my local public school, Ridge Street School in New Jersey, in the north ward of Newark, New Jersey.

Why is this relevant?

I used to think these poll workers, they get paid 40 bucks, right, at the time back in the day.

And then I hear it's becoming harder and harder to get people to be those judges, to be those poll workers because it's dangerous and because it's polarizing and it isn't just this civic-minded positive thing people are doing.

It's scary.

Am I engaging in hyperbole, Sam?

- No, you're not engaging in hyperbole.

It is scary.

And that's why more than ever, we need really good people to volunteer to be those poll workers.

I have the exact same memories of you from growing up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and seeing those dedicated folks who are helping my parents vote.

They are the genuine heroes of our democracy.

They are patriots and they need our support.

They need to get paid well.

They need to get supported, they need to not get threatened.

And we need to, all of us, need to sort of get around them to thank them for the work they do and encourage your friends to be those poll workers.

It's so important.

- Last question.

If the president of the United States and those closest to the president, whomever that president is, but in this case, President Trump continually says the elections are rigged when he loses.

What does that do to millions of Americans who follow and respect those leaders in terms of their view of those election results?

"It's rigged.

That means my vote doesn't count."

- It obviously has a negative effect on folks who believe in the president and if they believe him and he is saying the election is rigged, that is telling them that it's rigged.

But here's what I would say to those folks.

Look at some of the local and state leaders you have.

The Governor of Nevada is a Republican, the Governor of Georgia is a Republican.

If you look to those folks and see what they're saying after the election, listen to them and I bet you anything that those two governors among a bunch of other Republicans at state and local office are gonna say, "This was a free and fair election."

Listen to them.

Follow them.

The federal government doesn't have anything to do with this.

Listen to the Republicans who are actually running the election for your guide on how it went.

- By the way, to Sam's point, it isn't an opinion that the states and local governments run elections.

In the United States Constitution, it says states will be legally, constitutionally responsible for elections and local governments report to the states, not the feds.

And that's not by accident.

Hey, Sam, thank you so much for joining us.

We'll keep the conversation going.

All the best.

Take care.

- Thanks so much for having me.

- Sam's down in our nation's capital, taking care of the business of the nation.

Thank you, Sam.

- Thanks so much.

- You got it, stay with us.

We'll be right back.

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