(upbeat music) - Hi, everyone.

Steve Adubato.

We welcome our good friend, Jack Ford, who is an author, a legal analyst, an Emmy Award-winning journalist, a longtime colleague in public broadcasting.

He's the author of this book, "Beyond This Place of Wrath and Tears."

We're doing a separate interview with Jack, an in-depth interview about this book.

But this segment is part of a series we're calling Media Matters.

Check out our website, a whole range of programs under the banner of Media Matters, and produced in cooperation with the newly established Adubato Center for Media Leadership.

Hey, Jack, we're honored to have you be that first interview.

We're also interviewing our mutual friend and colleague, Neil Shapiro president of WNET group right after this, part of Media Matters.

Why does media matter, independent media and journalism matter now in 2026 more than ever, ever, my good friend, Jack Ford?

- You know, our history, Steve, as you know... Yeah, let's go back to when we were colonies.

All right?

And the history was Benjamin Franklin starts a newspaper.

You had various other colonies and cities, they were really just big towns at the time.

And what they realized was that they couldn't just get their news shipped across the ocean to them from Great Britain.

The notion was, look Thomas Jefferson said, "Opinion is power.

Knowledge is power."

And from back in those colonial times, we realized we needed to know what's going on around us so that we could make intelligent choices and decisions.

And in that era, obviously, those choices and decisions were dramatic.

And what we've seen over the course of time, and this is interesting, and you understand this, you and I have had these conversations.

Sometimes people will look and they'll say, "Oh, yeah, media has become all about opinion.

That's terrible."

It isn't.

It's always included aspects of opinion.

The difference, my belief is, you could understand which was opinion and which was the general true genuine journalism.

And one fed the other, and that was always fine.

I think why media matters so much now is because we've lost the distinction between opinion, again, very valuable, and reporting, which is gather up the facts, distill them into an understandable package in every way you might do it, radio, podcast, television, online platforms, and then present it to the public.

And the public then has their opportunity to say, "Okay, I get this now.

I understand how this is all working and who's saying what to whom and what's being done, and now I can make my decision, an educated and informed, most importantly, decision about what I think about all of this."

And what's happened now, and Steve, again, you and I go back a long time.

- Yep.

- We've had these conversations before.

There are so many platforms- - And by the way, when you... Sorry for interrupting.

- Yes.

- Jack's been a part of not only NBC and other networks before, but also public broadcasting for many years one of the three anchors, co-anchors on MetroFocus, a program our friend, colleague, and leader, Neil Shapiro, created.

It was not our job when you were one of those co-anchors- - Yes.

- And me in this shop, it is not our job to do commentary, correct?

- Correct.

- Yeah.

- Unless... And again, in our show, it wasn't.

What you do now- - Yeah.

- It isn't.

There are some shows or some people who might say, "Okay, this is now my commentary segment."

But generally, you're absolutely right.

- That's right.

- It was not our job.

And it was our- - Our job is to engage other people.

- Right.

But Jack, here's the thing that the whole reason why this Center for Media Leadership I created, and it's a family foundation.

Full disclosure, you can check it out.

But it's because in all candor, I am concerned, and I know you are because we've had so many conversations on the air and off, about the fact that our media is so bifurcated and chopped up and polarized.

People just go to a website, go to a digital platform, get their algorithm that tells them they already are right about something, so everything there gets reinforcing it.

Those of us in public broadcasting and doing this kind of work, that's not our thing.

- No, it isn't.

And what's- - Is there a place for this anymore, Jack Ford?

- There is.

I think there is.

And I think what we have to do is we have to be very strong about staking out that place.

Here's the situation.

I don't want to call it a problem, but here's the situation.

When I first started to do journalism, television news, in the late 1980s, there were three networks, right?

And there were radio stations and newspapers.

Right?

And it sounds quaint that's where people got their news from.

What we have now is this vast array of platforms, and we've talked of it.

It's podcasts, it's television still- - Right.

- It's radio, it's online.

So there's so many places for you to go to get so-called news- - Including TikTok- - Information, and opinion - Facebook, and X.

- Yes, yes.

- And I'm not sure that's news, but go ahead, Jack.

- Yeah, yeah.

So, the question now for let's call it the media that's looking to provide information as opposed to the media that's looking to proselytize.

And that's fine.

I'm not condemning that.

But what we need to know as a society, as a public, is where do we go to find here's our news, here's the information, and then we can find where do we go to get our opinions from people if we want them?

Where do we go to, to... A lot of people are just, as you've mentioned before, Steve, a lot of people are comfortable just saying, "Tell me what I want to hear, what I believe," as opposed to saying, "You know, let me know everything here, and then I'll figure out what I believe."

- And hold on, Jack.

- So- - Yeah.

- I'm sorry for interrupting- - Sure.

- 'Cause I said I wasn't gonna engage in opinion or commentary, but I need to... With a question, it'll be clear what my thinking is.

What about if we present an interview, Governor Sherrill, just elected in New Jersey.

I'm gonna interview Governor Sherrill.

As an independent journalist, you and I have done it.

Our colleague Raphael Pirelman did it for years.

Just because we're interviewing Mikie Sherrill, the argument is, "This is fake news.

You're an enemy- - Yeah - Of the people."

Why?

Because you're interviewing a Democratic governor.

We've interviewed- - Yeah.

- Republican governors as well.

For people who have already decided that what we're doing is not legitimate, how the heck do we break through?

- Yeah, we've gotta make people understand that everything is not partisan, nor does it need to be partisan, and especially it doesn't need to be viciously, tribally partisan.

You know, here's the thing about a democracy.

Curiously, you know, Thomas Jefferson did not like at all the idea of party politics.

He predicted, and Jefferson had some, a lot of flaws, we know, but he was a brilliant man.

He predicted the introduction of parties, political parties, would create this rank partisanship that could tear at the fabric of democracy, right?

But what we have to make people understand is just because you are interviewing a governor who happens to be a Democrat, you've also interviewed Republicans, it doesn't mean that you share their views about... You know, I was always very careful, and I've seen you do this, too, when I was interviewing somebody, and I wanted to challenge their opinion.

What I found is if I challenged it in a way that made it sound remotely as if it was coming from me, people would say, "Oh, sure, that's what he's saying.

He's over here on the right or on the left," yeah.

So I, you know, what we find we have to do to hopefully get people understand it, and I said I've seen you do this, is I'll say to them, "Here, here, Governor, Senator, Congressperson, here's what your critics say about this.

How do you answer that?"

So you have to try very hard to get people to understand this is not me introducing my opinion.

My greatest compliments I've ever had, Steve, and I'm sure you had, too, is we're finishing a- - They don't know what- - Interview, and I- - They don't know how we vote.

- Exactly.

- There it is.

- And I had a viewer say, "I had no idea what you thought about that."

- That's right.

- And I'd say, "Thank you so much.

You've just made me delighted about the job."

- By the way this whole series, Media Matters, will focus largely on media leaders making a difference, and that top of the list is Jack Ford.

And boss, by the way, the other interview we're doing with Jack is about his book, which is powerful and important, and also about an unknown, for many, media leader who's no longer with us but very impactful.

Hey, my friend, this will be one of many conversations that we have with you as part of our Media Matters series.

Thank you, Jack.

Appreciate it.

- Steve, it's always a delight to spend some time with you.

You take care.

- I'm Steve Adubato.

More importantly, that's Jack Ford.

We'll see you next time - [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by The Russell Berrie Foundation.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Hackensack Meridian Health.

Valley Bank.

Stockton University.

The North Ward Center.

The Adubado Center for Media Leadership.

South Jersey Industries.

And by EJI, Excellence in Medicine Awards.

A New Jersey health foundation program.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

And by BestofNJ.com.

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