♪♪ >> From NJ PBS Studios, this is "NJ Spotlight News" with Brianna Vannozzi.

>> Hello, and thanks for joining us tonight.

I'm Joanna Gagas.

Brianna Vannozzi is off.

Coming up, as America gets ready to celebrate its 250th anniversary, we'll highlight the pivotal role New Jersey played in the American Revolution.

Plus, Asbury Park is a destination for musicians and music fans worldwide.

We'll look at the evolution of the music scene there, and one festival coming up celebrating local artists.

But first, we take a deep dive into the real environmental impact of AI data centers on communities.

Funding for NJ Spotlight News provided by the members of the New Jersey Education Association and RWJBarnabas Health.

Learn more at rwjbh.org.

Data centers have become a flashpoint for controversy and debate all across America including here in New Jersey.

With the rise of AI more and more data centers are being built and raising a whole lot of questions around what regulations should guide their development.

Several New Jersey towns have now banned them while others have welcomed them.

Last month Governor Sherrill outlined a plan to create regulation standards for the state and several pieces of legislation have been drafted that would do that.

Joining us now is Anjali Ramos Brousseau, Director of the New Jersey Chapter of the Sierra Club to talk about the environmental impacts of the data centers.

Anjali, great to have you with us.

I know that data centers are an issue that is really important of high priority for you and your organization.

You've been pretty vocal in calling for regulation around data centers.

We're going to get into what you believe some of that should look like, but can you just first help us understand what we know right now are some of the environmental impacts of data centers?

Yeah, I mean data centers unfortunately do have a widespread environmental impact from where they get to be built.

So the siting and the impacts on, you know, are you impacting open space, farmland, are you impacting communities?

Then you go into the water usage of these facilities, which require so much water to cool down the servers.

So there's an impact to water quality as well as water availability.

And the ultimate impact, in my opinion, which is air pollution, given that data centers are not properly regulated under any federally or at the state level.

We are seeing a lot of big data centers being proposed and being built that rely on natural gas burning in order to generate their energy required for their service.

And that creates a direct impact on air pollution in the surrounding communities.

So huge problems from the environmental perspective, but also from the energy perspective.

Yeah, I want to also point out this heat island effect that I know you understand and we've been learning more about.

We talk about heat islands often when it comes to urban areas where there's less trees, there's more blacktop and those spaces tend to heat up 10 degrees or more in hot weather.

Well, what is it about data centers that's creating this heat island effect around them?

So as you can imagine, and there's many different types of data centers, right?

They've always existed to power our internet usage, our social media usage, our cloud computing usage.

The problem that we're experiencing right now is that we're going into the era of artificial intelligence or AI, which requires a lot more servers, a lot more computing power, and therefore a lot more water in order to keep those servers cooled down.

These servers run 24/7.

They never stop.

So it is an enormous amount of heat that gets regenerated.

The water can tone down that heat, but it's not entirely 100% toned down.

So it has an impact on the water that is circulating that ends up being incredibly hot.

And that depends where it's going to be discharged.

But it still radiates heat to the surrounding of the facility, right?

Like the water doesn't really tone down the entire heat that you're experiencing.

So it creates a radius of the heat.

If you are having a data center in the middle of a community, for sure this community will experience the impacts of that heat, which we know as the heat island effect.

And of course, there are trickle down effects.

We know from living in a heat island, one of them even is a major impact on pregnant people who can go into preterm labor, depending on the heat increases.

There have been arguments made that I've heard.

Why are we using fresh water for data centers?

Have you heard that argument?

And is there a case to be made for using a different type of water source?

Yes, I mean, that is definitely it's something that we don't want data centers to do, right?

Because, for example, New Jersey has been in a drought for two consecutive years now.

And so water availability is of incredible importance for the state and also across the nation, given climate change.

Right.

But unfortunately, that is one of the issues with data centers, particularly on the AI front, is that these sort of innovative technologies of closed-loop water recirculation, which basically allows you to not draw in water from water bodies continuously.

It does work, but we haven't really seen it scaled up to the sizes of these AI data centers.

So it sounds like a great solution in paper.

We have not seen it in reality.

And so that is the problem of it seems like there's not a solution yet to deal with the water issue aside from actually drawing water from a water body, which is a problem.

So there are four pieces of legislation that you wrote about in an op-ed that you and your organization would support this legislature passing to create some of that regulation.

The first, S.3379 requires reporting of water and energy usage.

What would that look like?

Why do you think that's right?

Yeah, so we think that is right because it doesn't exist.

Right now, how it works, a data center gets to be proposed, it gets to be built, and they only report their water and energy consumption to the utility.

And there isn't any type of reporting to the government.

So the government is blindsided.

And what I mean by that is the state agencies, the Department of Environmental Protection, the Board of Public Utilities, they don't understand number of data centers, amount of energy that is being consumed out of New Jersey's grid, as well as amount of water that is being drawn in from aquifers or different types of water bodies in the state.

So how can the state appropriately or planned for, for example, dealing with the drought situation or dealing with the issue on the energy side, which we're experiencing, you know, such a crisis with not enough capacity, if you don't know from these huge users of energy and water, how much they're actually using.

So it's the first step into transparency for the state to have this information, plan accordingly and develop regulations that can tackle the problem.

Right.

And so it's... Let me jump in here, because I want to get to everything.

So there are three other bills, and I'm just going to laundry list them.

One would study the long-term impacts of water consumption.

Another would require clean energy.

You touched on that before.

And another bill would ask these data centers to "pay their fair share."

In other words, contribute to what they're drawing from, from the grid, the energy grid.

Is that correct on that last part?

Yes, that is correct.

And that last bill that you just mentioned, Joanna, that is about to pass the entire legislature.

And my understanding is that Governor Sherrill will be signing that bill.

It's a data center tariff bill.

Yes.

Like you mentioned, paying for their fair share.

That really goes after, if a data center is drawing energy from the grid, they should pay for that energy.

If a data center makes the heat, go ahead.

Well, we do know that the governor outlined many of these as the pillars of her administration's approach to data centers.

We just have a few seconds left.

What should communities consider if they are wondering or considering whether to bring a data center into their area?

Definitely.

So the siding, right?

The heat island effect, that is one consideration.

The noise that the data centers generate, it's another consideration and having an adequate buffer for those two things are incredibly important.

Where is the water coming from?

How much energy is the data center proposing to utilize?

Can they bring their own clean energy is incredibly important in order to not tap into the grid?

And can they pay for their fair share, right?

They shouldn't be having sweet deals with tax deals with the municipality or the state, they really should be contributing to the energy to the grid and to the state economy if they're actually wanting to come in.

So it requires a lot of different things to look for and our website New Jersey Sierra Club has a toolkit that can provide you with all of that information and how to look for that information.

All right, thank you so much.

Anjuli Ramos Busso, Director of the New Jersey Chapter of the Sierra Club.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The country is gearing up to celebrate its 250th birthday this July 4th, and in New Jersey, organizations like the Crossroads of the American Revolution National Heritage Area are hosting events to help educate residents about the state's important role in our country's fight for freedom.

For more on the important battles and sites from the Revolutionary War, I'm joined by Carrie Fellows, Executive Director of the Crossroads of the American Revolution.

Carrie, thank you so much for being with us.

This is such a significant time for our country as we all are excited, I know, celebrating our 250th anniversary.

I want to talk to you about the National Heritage Areas in the country.

There are 62 of them.

What is a National Heritage Area?

So a National Heritage Area is more than just a historic site.

It typically embodies a specific area and a theme or several themes that kind of tie that area together so they can cross state lines.

For example, Crossroads of the American Revolution, you know, we're only a portion of New Jersey.

We're in parts of 14 counties in New Jersey.

And although New Jersey has many things that are interesting, we are dedicated to connecting with people and places of New Jersey's rich revolutionary heritage.

And that our goal is really to inspire community pride and stewardship and civic engagement.

So heritage tourism is a huge part of what we do.

Yeah, I have to just say on a personal note, some of my favorite family trips as a child were visiting all of the different sites of the American Revolution right here in New Jersey and to be fair some in Pennsylvania as well.

But New Jersey is the only state dedicated to the American Revolution, is that right?

It's the only one that's exclusively dedicated to the American Revolution, certainly.

There's a couple of others that include it in their heritage areas, but we're the only one that is only Revolutionary War all the time.

Okay, talk us through some of the most historic, maybe some of the most famous sites that were part of the American Revolution that are right here in our state.

Sure, I'm gonna highlight one of our gateway sites, one of our major partners, which is Morristown National Historical Park.

And the really neat thing about that is Theodosia Ford, who was a widow living in her house in Morristown, actually hosted members of Washington's Continental Army twice in that house during the American Revolution.

They stayed there in 1777 and then again in the winter of 79-80.

And at that time it was the headquarters and that's really the beginning of the story and the hard winter that was there.

We always hear about Valley Forge, but Morristown was at least as hard in '79 and '80.

So is that the home right there where people can go and actually see what that looked like?

Yeah, it is.

They can visit it.

They can also visit the huts where, reproductions of the huts, where men built huts to replace their tents that they were sleeping in in December during one of the worst recorded winters in history in this country.

So it's really evocative to look at that house, which is still a fairly big house today.

It was enormous in the 18th century, but imagine a family of a woman and five children plus a couple of servants moving into just two rooms during the winter that General Washington and his staff were there and the army basically taking over the whole rest of the house.

And yeah, just hard to imagine.

Very yeah.

A challenging living condition.

Pretty disruptive, but also pretty significant.

Give us another site.

These are fun to explore.

Sure, another one which if you visit first is Princeton Battlefield State Park.

And the Battle of Princeton was really significant happening after the Battles of Trenton and after Washington crossed the Delaware.

Crossed the Delaware, fought the Battles of Trenton, and then moved up into Princeton and fought that battle and really routed the British in both of those locations.

The Battle of Princeton took the life of General Hugh Mercer, who had, he was a Scotsman, who had emigrated over here, and he was a surgeon, and he was wounded brutally with multiple bayonet thrusts by the 17th, it was the 16th at the time, now the 17th Regiment, and ended up taking nine days to pass away, finally, in the house right nearby on the grounds of which the battle was fought.

After the Battle of Princeton, Washington's army moved up to Morristown, and that was the first winter they stayed in Morristown.

So you can follow the battles all through New Jersey.

It's fascinating.

That's what I was going to ask you.

How can people see kind of where to go, where they can follow the battles, as you said?

Where is that information?

So they can find that on the Crossroads website, which is revolutionarynj.org.

We even have an audio tour that they can look at on their computer screen at home or on their phone, or they can listen to it on their phone as they're driving and get point-to-point driving directions and narration, which is kind of cool.

It is very cool.

I know you have events planned through 2033.

Why is that date significant?

We all think of 1776.

Why is the date 1783 significant?

Well, that is when the Treaty of Paris was signed and the Continental Congress was at the time meeting at what is now Princeton University in Nassau Hall and that is where they received word that the treaty had been signed.

So we're, you know, we're right there in the beginning and we close it out with the Treaty of Paris word being received by the Continental Congress in Princeton.

Why in your mind Carrie is connecting New Jersey to this significant piece of our American history so important?

I think because New Jersey has historically kind of been left behind.

People don't think about New Jersey as a Revolutionary War destination.

They think more of some of to our north and to our south.

But the Continental Army was here all throughout the eight years of the war.

And George Washington spent over a quarter of his time in New Jersey.

So it's significant we have over 150 sites, many of about 100 of which are open to the public, that are accessible and can be visited, and where people can learn about ordinary people that were caught up in the American Revolution and what their stories are.

It's not just all about, you know, the famous people, the ones we hear about, but it's about the folks who just served in the Army, enslaved people who were, you know, expected to serve for their master or tavern owners who decided to throw in and join the Army and follow the, you know, follow the entire scheme through to its end.

It's just fascinating to learn about ordinary people that became extraordinary.

And gave us this extraordinary freedom that we all appreciate today.

Carrie Fellows, Executive Director of the Crossroads of the American Revolution National Heritage Area, thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

Summer is officially here and with it comes more opportunity to get outside and enjoy all that New Jersey has to offer.

In Asbury Park, the community is gearing up for its annual Asbury Underground celebration this Saturday, which is part of the North to Shore Festival.

It's a chance to highlight the vibrant music and art scene all across Asbury.

Rick Barry is a musician and the music curator and administrator for Asbury Underground and he joins us now to discuss this year's lineup and the evolution of the music scene in Asbury.

Rick, so great to have you on the show.

This is an exciting topic.

We always love talking about the arts, but tell us what is Asbury Underground?

Asbury Underground at its core is an art and music crawl.

That was started in 2013 with just Pat Scavino at Art 629 started just a music crawl in a couple of art galleries.

I think it was 10 performances and 10 art galleries.

And I was one of those artists.

Afterwards we sat down and we're like, let's do this again.

And it's kind of expanded into a lot more than 10 artists and 10 venues.

Yeah, I want to talk about that expansion, Rick, because it has now become a part of North to Shore.

And for those who don't know, North to Shore was started by Governor Murphy and First Lady Tammy Murphy, really as a destination for arts and entertainment here in New Jersey.

How has Asbury Underground expanded since it became a part of North to Shore?

Oh, I mean, North to Shore has been fantastic.

When COVID hit, we kind of, a lot of work goes into this.

There's a lot of moving parts and it can be a lot, it can be very stressful.

When COVID hit, we obviously took a hiatus and basically almost an excuse to like not do it for a couple of years.

And then North to Shore reached out and I think Mayor John Moore at some point had mentioned, Oh, they used to do this thing, Asbury Underground to North to Shore.

And they reached out and kind of dragged us back into it the past couple of years.

And it's been amazing.

I mean, they really make it so much easier for us.

They just, you know, they help with the marketing and a lot of the other stuff that can really be the tedious aspects of it.

So we can just focus on booking the talent and putting together an awesome event.

- So there's a couple of different things I wanna look at, but when we talk about this event, this is one day, right, where you get artists across the town, across Asbury Park.

They come out.

What does that look like?

What does it feel like for someone who might wanna come and stop by?

It's basically, if you go to Cookman Avenue on Saturday, you can stop in any coffee shop, art gallery, retail store.

There's music up and down Cookman Avenue from 12 o'clock to 7 o'clock, all free.

And it's not, these aren't schlubs.

I mean, these are the best the Asburn music scene has to offer.

And it's just, we basically turn every little shop, everything into a music venue for a day.

You can see artists like Kevin Devine, who would like, you know, sell out the Stone Pony, Nicole Atkins playing in an art gallery that fits 20 people.

So it's really -- How can you afford to have them for free?

Well, we have a little bit of -- I mean, it's -- going back to when we started this, you know, Nicole was one of those artists, too.

She lived in the downtown Asbury, and it was just like walking downstairs and jumping up and playing songs at an art gallery.

So, like the artists, I think a lot of them, we get artists who are on the road to do a little, you know, stop in, pop up show.

You know, they're short sets because we have a lot to fit into a small time frame.

But yeah, I mean, it's just, it's something different that I think when national acts are coming through, they want to join.

And then, you know, the most of the acts are, you know, Asbury natives who some of them now I mean, it's, you know, 13 years, we've been we've been doing this, you know, except for COVID.

They want to give back.

They really want to just give back to their communities.

But it's also a showcase.

It's a very intimate, you know, every every show you can see it as we're underground is like by definition of once in a lifetime set.

It's an artist you're not going to see in an art gallery or one of these small venues.

It's one of those things where you get to go say like, "I saw so-and-so playing at Luso Music or at Over the Moon Art Gallery."

Let me jump in here.

I want to give a shout out to our editor, Mallory Massero, who connected us with you.

I know she's been working as part of Asbury Underground for a long time.

Renee Maskin, also I know I saw, is one of the performers there.

She's one of ours as well.

There's such a vibrant arts community in Asbury Park, but it's been struggling as of late, right, to keep venues where artists can come and play.

Explain that struggle and how this helps in just a little bit of time we have left.

Yeah, I mean, that's a big thing, right?

A lot of the venues have gone away.

The Saint, even like the Brighton up in Long Branch, a lot of the venues that are still around.

I mean, I get it.

They got to make money.

And sometimes it's a lot more profitable to have a Tom Petty tribute band in than it is to have Rene Maskin or Rick Barry or whoever come in on a Friday night.

And whether they pack the bar or not, it's just it's about end of the day, bottom line, slinging drinks.

So, Asbury Underground doesn't have to worry about that.

Obviously, we want foot traffic in the downtown businesses, and that's a part of why we do it.

But it's also like just finding an afternoon to showcase all these artists, some of whom, you know, don't really have places in Asbury to play anymore.

There is no 150-person venue like the Saint anymore for young artists.

Before I let... I gotta jump in here, because before I let you go, I know you work yourself as a singer-songwriter.

You're performing right now also in Jon Stewart's band Church and State.

Just quickly, what is that like?

What's that band experience like?

Well, I mean, Jon Stewart's playing drums in my band, really.

But yeah, that's great.

Church and State is awesome.

It's a little more indie rock.

He likes to call it old man emo indie music.

And, you know, it's just a lot.

It's the most fun I've had playing in a band in a long time.

It's a real brotherhood, camaraderie.

We sit down, we write the songs together in a room.

and it's just a ton of fun.

You are correct.

Jon Stewart is playing in your band.

Rick Barry, musician and the music curator and administrator for Asbury Park Underground.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for everything you guys do.

It's great.

That's going to do it for us tonight.

I'm Joanna Gaggis for the entire team here at NJ Spotlight News.

Thanks for being with us.

We'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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