(music) New executive orders blocking ICE, a lawsuit against the frozen Gateway funds.

Governor Sherrill's made some big moves recently, so will they pay off for New Jersey?

Let's get into it.

Hi everyone.

I'm Joanna Gagis and this is reporters roundtable We've got a panel of journalists with us to help break down all that's happened in this last week of New Jersey news Let's see who we've got with us today.

First up Colleen Wilson transportation reporter for the record and North Jersey calm Matt Friedman reporter for Politico and author of the New Jersey playbook and Ben Hulac, Washington DC correspondent for NJ Spotlight News.

There's a whole lot of transportation stuff to get into later in the show but first let's just take a look at Governor Sherrill's actions this week along with her acting Attorney General Jen Davenport.

They issued an executive order to ban ICE operations on any state properties without a judicial warrant.

Matt I want to start with you can you break down what this actually means and whether the state really has any enforcement ability over ICE activity?

Yeah well I was reading the executive order and I just couldn't really figure out what if anything it will change.

ICE as far as they gave I think Sherrill was asked during the press conference that gave no examples of ICE using state property for the types of things she was talking about.

This order does not cover things like state highways, which would be a very different story if you were to say ICE can't use the New Jersey Turnpike.

You know, it's not like ICE is staging in the Statehouse Rotunda.

So I'm kind of, I think largely, I'm not saying it's impossible that there could be a situation where this would apply.

But this seems frankly more sending a message than any real practical change to ICE enforcement.

Because let's face it, what can the state really do here?

I could see a problem if ICE shows up maybe in state courts to try to detain people who may be undocumented.

But I haven't seen that happen against the courts.

Yeah, we do know that there are members of Congress who have introduced bills that would put some restrictions on how ICE operates.

And I believe it was Congresswoman Nellie Poe who wrote some legislation that introduced legislation that would ban ICE from operating outside of any courtrooms where people are showing up for scheduled appointments.

But Ben, just looking at our members of Congress this week, we did see members from both parties speaking out about ICE activity.

There was this fiery exchange earlier in the week between Congresswoman LaMonica McIver as she was addressing Todd Lyons, who's the acting director of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement.

We have that clip.

Let's first take a look at it.

Let me ask you some questions that you may be able to answer.

Mr.

Lyons, do you consider yourself a religious man?

Yes, ma'am.

Oh, yes.

Okay, well, how do you think Judgment Day will work for you with so much blood on your hands?

I'm not going to entertain that question.

Oh, okay.

Of course not.

Do you think you're going to hell, Mr.

Lyons?

I'm not going to entertain that question.

Of course not.

How many government... Gentlelady, the gentlelady will suspend.

So Ben, that was obviously a fiery exchange.

She was admonished.

She later said, "Hey, you're the party that's always talking about the Bible and heaven, and so I think it's appropriate for me to ask these questions."

What do you make of that language that she used and the broader point that she was trying to make there?

I mean, this is when I when I talk with the congresswoman in the halls after votes during votes.

This is who she is.

That's that's Monica MacIver on a regular Tuesday.

I think fundamentally, it's this is one of the cards the Democrats have to play in Congress as the public turns more scrutiny toward ICE and the Trump administration's hardline immigration crackdown.

They don't have a lot of power.

So what they have is the ability to try to capture the public's attention, draw eyeballs, draw outrage.

And I think the congresswoman did that pretty darn well in that clip.

The other the other point here really is that I think to Matt's point state officials in New Jersey and Democrats here in Washington don't have a lot of leverage.

So the governor can sign the executive orders, but the administration doesn't really care.

The federal administration doesn't really care what state officials do, to be blunt.

We've seen this in Minnesota, where the feds have not cooperated with investigations into the killings of Alex Pretty and Renee Goods.

So this is really, I think the Congresswoman's sort of exchange there is a good PR in a sense politically, but doesn't have a lot of weight.

Let me jump in there.

We did have state Senator Holly Schiappese on the show earlier this week, and she did say that she believes that there should be an independent investigation.

She's one of a few Republicans who we've heard not too many out there saying that.

But then let's follow up on another congressman, this time Republican Congressman Jeff Vandreu, who was speaking in a hearing actually addressing U.S.

General Attorney Pam Bondi over the Epstein files, but he used the moment to talk about ICE activity.

He said that it is the sanctuary cities or the lack of cooperation with law enforcement that's actually heightening the violence in some of these ICE encounters.

And he says not all these protests are peaceful and they are to blame as well.

What do you make of that?

Well, he's sort of walked an interesting line in particular after the killings in Minnesota.

I bring that up simply because they have reverberated nationwide.

He at first issued a statement really critical of protesters and ICE protesters saying these these folks were organized.

And then after Mr.

Pratty was killed, and it turned out that he had a legally owned firearm in his possession.

The Congressman Van Drew sort of walked back his statement and said people have a right to protest and that it's constitutionally protected.

He's very good at this, I would say the Congressman.

He can talk his way out of just about anything and he's very, let's remember this is a man who switched political parties eight years ago roughly and six years ago I should say and has been reelected repeatedly as a Republican in South Jersey after being a conservative Democrat for years.

So yeah, he's just sort of legit.

Verbally I would say talented.

Colleen, early last week ICE arrested some individuals outside of or at the 9th Street light rail station between Hoboken and Jersey City.

This week NJ Transit came out with a statement in reaction to or I should say in support of Governor Sherrill's executive order.

What can you tell us about NJ Transit's position?

Yeah, it's kind of hard to say.

I think this is going to be a big gray area, given that executive order about state property and how New Jersey transits, platforms, trains, buses, you know, relate to that as it comes down to state property.

As you mentioned, someone was taken from the elevator, I think several people from elevators or platform areas at the 9th Street station.

And then even there was a report of a woman who was taken off of a bus that was stopped by ICE officers, boarded, appeared to board, and then take her away from a bus that was actually on its route.

So, you know, it's gray.

I don't think it's really been addressed.

I've sent questions to the Attorney General's office, to Sherrill's office, to get a better understanding of whether that executive order and those protections extend to, you know, paying customers on a moving vehicle, which is state property, or even on a platform where they pay, you know, so we're still waiting.

I mean, Chris Collori, the CEO and president of New Jersey Transit, you know, really simply said at a recent board meeting that they would enforce the order, but really didn't give many details.

Yeah, that's the point I want to get to.

So he says that NJ Transit basically stands with the state of New Jersey.

We're going to switch gears because it feels like two weeks ago, but just at the beginning of this week, we had the outcome of the special primary for Congressional District 11.

Matt, I'm going to start with you.

We have our two contenders now.

We have Ana Lilia Mejia won the Democratic nomination.

What was the secret sauce, the magic recipe that got her elected?

Well, we're still on ice.

And before I make this point, I just want to make one thing about Andrew's comments, which I think are just really empty rhetoric for two reasons.

One is that, oh, it's the sanctuary cities are making this worse, but the Trump administration is going in to the sanctuary cities with aggressive enforcement and really stirring this up in a lot of ways.

You know, it's like, why are they in Minneapolis?

This is not ground zero for undocumented immigrants in the United States.

And secondly, it's like, yes, there are violent protesters and there are protesters that are misbehaving, but it's up to law enforcement to deescalate and be professional.

There's only one force here that you control.

And law enforcement is supposed to be professional.

And we've seen video after video after video.

That's not what they're doing.

ICE is arguing with these people.

They are almost looking for an excuse in video after video.

So I just want to say like Benji's comments like the federal government controls not protesters.

They control the law enforcement.

And so that's where the de-escalation comes in.

Matt let me follow up on that point and then we'll get to make here because you raise an interesting point.

We did see an ICE encounter here in New Jersey this week in Roxbury where the person who was being detained had a criminal record was agitated.

Clearly the situation was heightening.

At some point during the altercation the ICE officer shot the tires of the man's vehicle rather than shooting the man himself.

DHS says that officer followed training.

That begs the question does that mean the Minneapolis officers were not following their training.

Yeah well also regarding what happened in Roxbury may very well be the way they described it but it's not controversial for me to state because it's just a fact that time and time again when these incidents happen the highest officials or the spokesperson for DHS comes out and tells a story that is demonstrably false.

It happened with Alex Pretty it happened actually with Rasprakh's arrest.

You know we forget that but there were a lot of things they said in the immediate aftermath that were just complete BS.

It just were not true.

And so ultimately I don't remember where I was going with this point.

Well I think that yes with what they said maybe maybe they were completely justified in Roxbury.

Maybe they were doing but I trained but they've completely undermined their credibility and we can't just take their word for it.

We can't transfer now transition now to make here you say what's all about ICE.

Certainly she ran on that platform.

I think she capitalized on the peak of this, this emotional moment.

But go ahead.

Well, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee, which poured so much money into defeating Tom Malinowski, their message was extraordinarily effective.

It was all about ICE.

I really believe that's what drove these voters to switch to the most anti-ICE candidate possible.

And also the most, you know, pro-Palestinian candidate possible.

They shot themselves in the foot, but their messaging was extraordinarily effective.

Anyway, that's that's what I read into this race.

And so yes, I believe ICE was the driving issue in her win.

We're going to get to the Republican candidate.

I'm going to come right back to you.

But Ben, I just want to ask you this with Mahia, the candidate now in a district that was redrawn recently to be much more Democratic, much more blue.

She's going to go up against a pretty moderate Republican.

He's not a Trump rubber stamper.

We'll talk about him in a moment, but I'm just curious how you think he plays in a district that was once red was purple for a bit.

And right now she has the support of you know, she's aligned with many of the major socialists in her party.

Senator Sanders AOC Elizabeth Warren.

Yeah, I Elizabeth Warren certainly wouldn't call herself a socialist, but she's certainly on the left wing of the Democratic Party.

I think it'd be fascinating to watch her come to Washington, assuming she wins this special general and is sworn in to fill the rest of Governor Sherrill's term that she left behind.

She's going to come in at a really fascinating moment and to continue the focus on ICE as Matt rightly has.

That is the dominant issue really in Washington.

That is on the lips of every member of Congress.

There are other bigger I would say more more long term issues, but really the issue of the day is ICE and CBP, I should say, and what to do to rein in this.

These, these enforcement immigration enforcement arms of DHS, which even some moderate Republicans will say have gone too far.

The man who chairs the Homeland Security Committee in the House, Andrew Garbarino, Republican from New York, he actually voted against, voted rather abstain from censoring Monica McGyver and has tried to be, who is, she's going to be stripped of her committee assignment, but he is trying to maintain this sort of center ground.

Anyway, he is, he, I bring him up because he is sort of a potential swing vote where we can see the public opinion shifting nationwide.

At least to a certain extent against ICE and against CBP, people think that largely they have gone too far because as Matt points out, we can see with our own eyes, they have shot and killed people in cold blood in the street.

It's, it's nothing fancier than that.

Let's go, let's take a look at the Republican in the race in CD11.

We have former mayor, now councilman of Randolph, Hathaway.

What can you tell us about him, Matt, and the type of candidate that he is?

He is running a very, very centrist campaign, as he asked to, in a district that voted for Kamala Harris by eight or nine points, and which Mikie Sherrill won by 15 in 2024, which was really a low watermark for New Jersey Democrats.

So it's a centrist campaign, and he has the nomination to himself, so he doesn't have to worry about that either.

And you know, unlikely he'll have any competition in June either.

But I just think in this environment, it's going to be really hard for him to pull through right now.

You know, he seems it most of his messaging is sort of like meeting Democrats halfway, like, yeah, we need to reform ICE but not abolish it.

But I think the public mood right now is is kind of beyond that.

Very much so in in a pretty strongly democratic district.

You know, this isn't Rodney Frelinghuysen's district anymore.

It went pretty significantly farther democratic in redistricting a few years ago.

Yeah, that's for sure.

Interestingly, though, Colleen, Joe Hathaway has said that he would like to see President Trump unleash the funding for Gateway.

He says he's playing politics.

That's a pretty strong position from someone who may need the support of the broader Republican Party if he's in a close race at all.

I did ask him about that and whether he'd gotten a Trump endorsement or would accept it.

Didn't he said not yet.

And he would consider it.

But excuse my voICE.

I do want to talk to you about where New Jersey stands right now in the lawsuit together with New York that they brought against the federal administration for freezing the gateway funds.

We saw some movement last night in the case.

What can you tell us, Colleen?

Yeah, you know, again, another gray area.

I think a little bit right now.

The GDC, New York and New Jersey were quick to celebrate at 5.01 p.m.

last night, which is when the stay that the federal judge and district court expired, which they interpreted to mean that the money would just be released or that it at least should be released immediately.

However, the clerk and the Second Circuit put out a letter around that same time saying that they would refer the appeal from the federal government to a motions panel at the earliest February 23rd.

So what that means, whether or not we're getting any guidance from the Judge Vargas in the District Court and the lower court remains to be seen.

And I'm anxious to see how that plays out, what the government is going to say, the Department of Justice, about how they're moving forward and if they are going to release those funds in the meantime.

Yeah, the funds that would need to be released immediately, as far as I can see, is about $205 million.

That would be between now and then, according to Vargas' order, that between now and that February 23rd date.

Obviously, this $205 million, if that's the number, if, like you said, the funds need to be released immediately, is only a tiny fraction of what the project costs.

But from your understanding and your reporting, is that enough to get workers back to work, at least as of right now?

That's a great question.

Yeah.

How would that money be spent?

And is it to pay back money that was already spent for the last four months?

They have this massive credit facility with interest that they are paying back or working to pay back.

So would it go to that?

And secondly, I think the bigger, most important overarching question is if they have a 14 day temporary restraining order in place and release of funds during that time, can you actually mobilize, remobilize your construction sites?

You know, I don't see a world in which you can do that at full capacity as it was before without a further commitment.

I mean, how could you go to your contractors and say, OK, we have 14 days, we're going to have to do this.

Right.

I mean, it just doesn't make any sense.

I think, again, the states, others should be seeking more clarity and providing that clarity, frankly, to the workers, to the public about what this really means and how they can move forward.

What is the path that will allow them to actually restart construction in a meaningful way?

Ben, we know that the president has said very clearly this is a very personal vendetta between him and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.

He wants - he's called for his name to be added to Penn Station, among other things.

Do you think the fact that there are about a thousand workers laid off right now, many of whom, according to the labor union president, are Trump supporters, do you think that that puts any political pressure on the president to get any funds back to this project?

Maybe a little, but not really.

This is straight out of Trump's long-term playbook.

In his first term as a businessman before he became president, and certainly in his second term, he has used money and used government contracts and deals to wield power.

It's as simple as that.

He, in the government shutdown in the fall, he went after blue, democratically leaning cities and states and froze funding in those locations.

If we think back about a year ago, feels like longer than that, but roughly a year ago, days into his second term, the White House Budget office froze hundreds of billions of dollars worth of grants and non-profit funding nationwide, sending the Congress basically into a tailspin about what had happened.

And folks nationwide woke up unsure at nonprofits and advocacy groups doing sort of basic health education work in their communities woke up unsure of how to operate.

So this is this is who Trump is.

He uses money to punish people he doesn't like.

I would also quickly tack on on the gateway point.

Quickly recently approved $700 million for gateway on a bipartisan manner.

And so that money is also sort of waiting in the wings for gateway.

But it again gets back to will Trump give it a green light.

And the man does not like Chuck Schumer.

I remember watching the video saying that the gateway had been terminated and literally doing like a knife twist in the Oval office to stick it to Chuck Schumer.

Well, I'm sure there's so much more we could talk about, but that's all the time that we have.

Thank you so much to our panel for being with us today.

You can follow me on Instagram at Joanna Gagas and Jay and go ahead and scan that QR code on your screen to see more episodes of roundtable for all of the crew here at Gateway Center in downtown Newark.

I'm Joanna Gagis.

Thanks for being with us.

Have a great weekend.

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