[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We are honored to be joined by Philip Alagia, who is the chief of staff in Essex County for the county executive, Joe DiVincenzo, and also a democratic strategist who has seen just a few transitions from campaign leadership to governmental leadership.

Good to see you, Phil.

- Good to see you, Steve.

Excited to talk about these exciting times in New Jersey.

- You've done it a few times.

The transition, the transitional leadership, right?

- Absolutely.

Coordinated as the executive director for Joe's transition and been involved in a few, but they say, I love this quote I read, "A campaign is like poetry: big ideas, motivation, inspiration."

"A government is like prose: punctuation.

You gotta just make sure the sentences make sense."

So it's totally different, campaigning and governing.

- I was just talking about the mayor over New York, Mamdani, who running was one thing and then he gets elected, and Mikie Sherrill, they get elected at the same time, governor of New Jersey, And all of a sudden you've got a snowstorm.

We're doing this in mid-January.

It will be seen later.

Hopefully the weather will be a lot nicer.

So how the heck do you prepare for that kind of leadership when you have a crisis, a weather crisis right off the bat?

- I think you just have to be hands on and I mean, you know, during the campaign you pick the issues.

You talk about what you think makes you look good, but when you govern, the issues pick you, right?

You didn't decide that that snow storm was gonna hit a week after you got inaugurated.

So you need to make sure you're visible, you're present, you don't decide, hey, I just got sworn in, I'm gonna take that trip to Aruba or Cancun and relax.

You have to be present.

They both were out, they were on television, they were talking and they made mistakes.

But I think, you know, as long as you're on top of your step and you have to make sure you have great staff and you're hiring people.

You know, this first a hundred days and for both, for any administration, it's very difficult.

You need to find the right people that can do the job.

- Hey Phil, I remember you told me offline, we were having a conversation the other day about this, and you said, because I said, come on, you gotta be prepared, you gotta think of all the possibilities and you go,"hmmm".

And you told me about two situations.

Do them real quick, do the train story - Number one is that they were reporting to us exactly what we're in charge of and our fleet.

- This is in Essex County, about a million people, a few less, but go ahead.

- Talking to me about the fleet.

You know, we have 700 and some cars.

We have so many trucks.

We have so many ambulances or emergency vehicles.

We have this and we have two trains.

And I'm like, what, we have two trains?

What are you, were you looking in the right- We're not Amtrak?

And they're like, "Yes, Turtleback Zoo has two trains and when they break down, they need oil, they need to be fixed.

We have to do that."

In my twenty- I mean, I never even thought about that.

That was something that as chief of staff that we'd have to deal with in the county.

And I'm sure the new administrations are dealing with that right now.

Phil, I don't like saying this, but you're a strong leader in your own right.

You've led a lot of initiatives within the county and on the state level as well, but being a chief of staff is not being the chief executive.

What is leadership like for a chief of staff versus the chief executive A and B, how important is that you're on the same page and have the trust to have hard conversations?

Loaded question, I know.

- I think it's vitally important that the chief of staff and the executive, if it's governor, mayor or county executive, in my case, are on the same page on a lot of stuff.

The executive has to have the trust that the chief of staff can make decisions that he or she agrees with, right?

I mean, I'm very comfortable, Joe, and I have had a long relationship, you know.

We think alike, I know what he's thinking, but I also have to be in a position where if I think he's making a mistake, I have to be able to go in there and say, "Joe, no, I disagree.

This is why."

And if he was, and if the executive respects the chief of staff, he'll have to assess it.

Sometimes Joe says, "No, I disagree with you."

And ultimately the difference is the chief executive makes the decision, right?

I'm trying to give him all the information and ultimately he decides whether we go left or right.

- And what happens in an administration at any level, the federal level, the state level, the county level, local level, what happens if the chief executive has a "leadership style" where he or she, they're not particularly interested in your feedback or your opinion, but they are interested in your praise, constant and never ending?

- Well, I think that if you have strong people, if you hire strong, smart, intelligent employees and chiefs of staff, you won't have them for a long time.

Because if they feel undervalued and they're not contributing, why would they wanna be part of it?

One of the great things, you know, one of the great things in New Jersey is like, I think Mikie Sherrill is going to come into this, not like a typical political person.

She's gonna come in into this as a Navy commander.

She's gonna come taking the bridge, assessing the situation, getting her team together and doing a good job.

And then that's what makes a great leader, ultimately listening, but making the tough decisions.

- It's interesting you talk about Governor Sherrill.

She does have the military background, a decade if not more in the military.

To what degree do you actually believe that military leadership background helps prepare her to be chief executive of the state?

- I think she's been trained to make decisions, to get input, to change on the fly if there's an emergency.

You know, she's had to deal with all that.

I just think it's different.

And I think that's what we need right now.

I mean, even New York with the mayor different, right?

We'll see if his background and his training and that difference is effective.

But you know, I think we are looking forward to someone who's Annapolis trained.

Naval Academy trading, you know, coming in and doing what they need to do.

Not a typical politician.

- Yeah, lemme follow up on that.

So viewers of Lessons in Leadership know that I'm obsessed by the concept of owning your mistakes, taking responsibility.

I wrote in one of my earlier books, my original "Lessons in Leadership," I wrote a chapter on the great late general Colin Powell who acknowledged that his testimony before the United Nations about weapons of mass destruction was wrong.

And there were some who said, "Why would you ever admit that publicly?"

And he said, "Because I was wrong.

And that's what leaders do, they acknowledge their mistakes."

One of my favorite books, "Extreme Ownership," written by two Navy Seals who talk about the fact that they have to own everything in the universe, including, Phil, the mistakes.

There are some who believe in leadership positions in a transition like this or whatever, that you don't acknowledge your mistakes publicly.

I'm not a fan of that view.

And I believe that true great leadership is acknowledging your mistakes, owning them, and saying what you've learned from 'em and what you'll do moving forward.

You say what?

- Absolutely.

I also think when you make a mistake and you bring your team together, you talk about it.

I think that's the only way you can fix a mistake, is if you recognize it.

Let's self scout, let's look at what we did.

Why did we get to that decision?

Let's realize it was a mistake and make sure it never happens again.

So I think it's important to have a great team around you.

You know why things that went great went great, and why when things go bad, why they went bad.

I think you have to look at that too.

It's not just a matter of admitting the mistake, it's trying to figure out, "Hey, why did we decide to go left?

Why were we so adamant that going left was the right decision?

And it turned out to be a disaster."

But if you could think about that decision-making process and why you got to the wrong decision, then you may never make it again.

- Hey Phil, thank you my friend.

The leadership journey never ends.

We'll talk soon.

- Looking forward to it.

- You got it, Steve Adubato.

Philip Alagia talking leadership, particularly with a new governor in New Jersey facing a whole range of challenges representing all of us.

9 million people in the states.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

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